$10 NLHE 6-max: Bottom set multi-way facing heavy action

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Vlad Savchenko

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A couple days ago I've played a hand with two unusual spots, so I decided to share it and hear some thoughts about it.
The hand was played on PP, and I didn't find how to get the actual HH, so this is my best version of it:

Everyone's unknown,
100 BB effective stacks,
Hero in CO with 4s4d.

Preflop:
UTG raises to $0.25, HJ calls, Hero calls, 3 folds.
Flop ($0.90): Qc7s4c
UTG bets $0.43, HJ raises to $1.29, Hero calls, UTG folds.
Turn ($3.91): 6d
HJ checks, Hero bets $2.80, HJ calls.
River ($9.51): 2c
HJ checks, Hero ???

So the first spot is on the flop after facing a bet and raise in front of us. IMO HJ's value range here is pretty narrow - 77 and 44, and the opener could still have all the sets. So I decided not to have a raising range here at all and continue only by calling a tight range of sets, TPTK, nut flush draws and 7x with a flush draw.

The turn is a clear value bet, as we're only behind of 77, and if we happen to run into a higher set - so be it.

The river is a different story. Now all of his flush draws got there, so in order to be value betting 44 here I'd have to assume that his value range is wider than originally assigned or that he was bluffing with some non-flushdraw hands that may call me down.
On the other hand, he checked the river, and a lot of people just jam their flushes in these spots out of fear that it goes check/check, so he may not have that strong of a range here.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
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fundiver199

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Flop
I am also just calling here. We don’t need to 3-bet to get stacks inside, and if we do, it looks super strong, and UTG probably only give us action, when he coolered us with a better set. By calling we at least allow him a chance to put money in way behind with an overpair or top pair type hand.

Turn
When he check, I think, his range is mostly draws trying to get a free card or maybe an overplayed top pair type hand. Clear bet for value, well done.

River
I think, its difficult to get called by worse now. If he overplayed top pair on the flop, is he really stacking off on this runout, probably not. Maybe we could go for a very small bet, but that will open the door for him to check-jam, which I really don’t want to face. So I prefer to just check back and take a note on, what he had.
 
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Vlad Savchenko

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fundiver199 said:
Flop
I am also just calling here. We don’t need to 3-bet to get stacks inside, and if we do, it looks super strong, and UTG probably only give us action, when he coolered us with a better set. By calling we at least allow him a chance to put money in way behind with an overpair or top pair type hand.

Turn
When he check, I think, his range is mostly draws trying to get a free card or maybe an overplayed top pair type hand. Clear bet for value, well done.

River
I think, its difficult to get called by worse now. If he overplayed top pair on the flop, is he really stacking off on this runout, probably not. Maybe we could go for a very small bet, but that will open the door for him to check-jam, which I really don’t want to face. So I prefer to just check back and take a note on, what he had.
Click to expand...
Yeah, exactly what I thought and did
After I checked back river, he showed AQ with Ac
 
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gustav197poker

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If you call on the flop you are in an uncomfortable situation, and your range is unbalanced on a low board and a 3-way boat, so I recommend 4bet line forcing insulation and if we get it, I like the check line on the Turn to protect my hand.
On the river I could try a blocking bet, taking advantage of the position and looking for correct folds. And if they raise us, I would probably call.
Greetings.
 
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Sidetracked

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As played, I think a check behind on the river is fine. He could easily have a flush draw that he raised on the flop and got there on the river.
 
eetenor

eetenor

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Vlad Savchenko said:
Yeah, exactly what I thought and did
After I checked back river, he showed AQ with Ac
Click to expand...


Thank U 4 Posting.

The fact that the villain had AQ and you did not put that in villains range is an important data point. You may wish to be looking at other hands where you incorrectly ranged your villains to see if you have a personal bias in your range construction.

We can at times be thinking things like villain cannot have AQ that would get raised preflop. Or why would villain raise the UTG bet on that flop with AQ why not call?

What happens is we start giving our villains similar thought patterns to ourselves when in fact as demonstrated here this villain had a hand you did not think villain would have.
We then can realize that this villain might have had KQ or QJ and raised that as well.

Then we can play the river more correctly as we know we can min value bet the river and get that crying call from AQ KQ

Hope this helps

:):)
 
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kkonicke

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I think I would have played it similar to you, but I think I'm betting again on the river. At higher stakes maybe that's a check-down, but I think every Qx is calling down at these stakes. Also I don't think a made flush risks a check-down at these stakes. And villain will have QJ/KQ/AQ way more often than a flush here. I think a lot of flush draws are folding to your turn bet unless they have 1 or 2 overs. Before seeing the hand, this felt like KQ to me. I would either bet the same $2.80 or just stick it in here. I play these stakes a lot and really think villain would stack off with those hands.
 
Norman Vasquez

Norman Vasquez

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Vlad Savchenko said:
A couple days ago I've played a hand with two unusual spots, so I decided to share it and hear some thoughts about it.
The hand was played on PP, and I didn't find how to get the actual HH, so this is my best version of it:

Everyone's unknown,
100 BB effective stacks,
Hero in CO with 4s4d.

Preflop:
UTG raises to $0.25, HJ calls, Hero calls, 3 folds.
Flop ($0.90): Qc7s4c
UTG bets $0.43, HJ raises to $1.29, Hero calls, UTG folds.
Turn ($3.91): 6d
HJ checks, Hero bets $2.80, HJ calls.
River ($9.51): 2c
HJ checks, Hero ???

So the first spot is on the flop after facing a bet and raise in front of us. IMO HJ's value range here is pretty narrow - 77 and 44, and the opener could still have all the sets. So I decided not to have a raising range here at all and continue only by calling a tight range of sets, TPTK, nut flush draws and 7x with a flush draw.

The turn is a clear value bet, as we're only behind of 77, and if we happen to run into a higher set - so be it.

The river is a different story. Now all of his flush draws got there, so in order to be value betting 44 here I'd have to assume that his value range is wider than originally assigned or that he was bluffing with some non-flushdraw hands that may call me down.
On the other hand, he checked the river, and a lot of people just jam their flushes in these spots out of fear that it goes check/check, so he may not have that strong of a range here.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Click to expand...



For me it sounds you play it really good, and specially it seems you were confident about your decisions.
 
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Vlad Savchenko

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eetenor said:
Thank U 4 Posting.

The fact that the villain had AQ and you did not put that in villains range is an important data point. You may wish to be looking at other hands where you incorrectly ranged your villains to see if you have a personal bias in your range construction.

We can at times be thinking things like villain cannot have AQ that would get raised preflop. Or why would villain raise the UTG bet on that flop with AQ why not call?

What happens is we start giving our villains similar thought patterns to ourselves when in fact as demonstrated here this villain had a hand you did not think villain would have.
We then can realize that this villain might have had KQ or QJ and raised that as well.

Then we can play the river more correctly as we know we can min value bet the river and get that crying call from AQ KQ

Hope this helps

:):)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply.
I didn't think that the villain couldn't have hands like AQ here. I thought that playing AQ that way was a clear overplay, and decided not to hope that the unknown player:
1. Didn't 3-bet AQ preflop.
2. Decided to play it aggressively postflop.
3. Would call down the river.

Don't worry, he definitely got a note for this one :)
 
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Vlad Savchenko

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kkonicke said:
I think I would have played it similar to you, but I think I'm betting again on the river. At higher stakes maybe that's a check-down, but I think every Qx is calling down at these stakes. Also I don't think a made flush risks a check-down at these stakes. And villain will have QJ/KQ/AQ way more often than a flush here. I think a lot of flush draws are folding to your turn bet unless they have 1 or 2 overs. Before seeing the hand, this felt like KQ to me. I would either bet the same $2.80 or just stick it in here. I play these stakes a lot and really think villain would stack off with those hands.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your thoughts.
After seeing the showdown I was a bit disappointed, because it was pretty likely that the villain would've called with a nut flush blocker here. It sort of boils down to whether or not he has a lot of Qx here by default. I didn't think so, but maybe I'm just giving people too much credit by default.
Also I agree that for the most part his flushes here are going to be A-high and K-high, plus something like 7c6c.
 
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Vlad Savchenko

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Norman Vasquez said:
For me it sounds you play it really good, and specially it seems you were confident about your decisions.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
Well, mainly it's either that I'm confident about my decisions, or I know that I've messed up :D
It's just that in this hand a lot depends on our assumptions about an unknown - whether V has a lot of Qx, would he stack them off, does he have a lot of flushes (or maybe better sets).
 
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Ianmacca99

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I prefer the call on the flop than another raise to keep them in the pot.

On the turn I think any hand better than yours would raise here so I'm putting my opponent on some sort of draw or QK AQ

River once flush draws get there sure you could go for thin value but if he raises your in a tricky spot. Some players do lead out the river hoping it doesn't go check check but he could be hoping you continue with the betting and look to raise here without history it's a guessing game. Personally I'd play safe here and check back
 
0815am

0815am

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I really liked how you played the hand. I do feel that we can make a small river bet to get value from any medium made range that he did try to control potsize with on the turn. Actually that range is not super wide. Probably AQ and KQ. So when thinking longer about it. River might be better to just check down.
 
TheDude6622

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Before reading the answers, I immediately thought that the HJ had AQ. You built a nice pot raising the flop and betting the turn with almost a pot size bet. The check on the river looks like they are trying to induce you to bet again, seeing the draw got there. I like the check and like the pot that you built for yourself. Well done!
 
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