$10 NLHE 6-max: BB overcalling 3bet & pot bet donking flop

Alucard

Alucard

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pokerstars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 4.55, PFR: 4.55, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 22)
BB: 99 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
UTG: 35 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
MP: 203.1 BB (VPIP: 34.97, PFR: 22.38, 3Bet Preflop: 1.67, Hands: 146)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.79, PFR: 13.86, 3Bet Preflop: 9.62, Hands: 103)
Hero (BTN): 106.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7s 8s
UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, CO calls 2 BB, Hero raises to 10 BB, fold, BB calls 9 BB, fold, fold

Flop : (24.5 BB, 2 players) 5s Jc Ts
BB bets 23 BB,

no hands but got to assume he's a fish. Calling flop hardly can ever be a profitable option right?
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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Not a fan of 3betting in position vs utg min raise. Unless you spevigically know utgs min raise is weak. I think id prefer just flatting pre in position and keeping SPR as high as posdible to maximize implied odds.

As played, vs BBs donk bet id jam. Plenty of equity if we get called. Likely villain has top pair or weak overpair and he will put you on a set or QQ+ enough of the time as long as hes not a total drooler
 
Lorpugo

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i flat call preflop with this hand dont 3bet now have to fold
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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That's a spewy 3bet right there kids!

Jamming this flop is terrible, what has the BB done to make you think he'll fold? I'd think you have zero fold equity.
 
Last edited:
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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That's a spewy 3bet right there kids!

Jamming this flop is terrible, what has the BB done to make you think he'll fold? I'd think you have zero fold equity.
if his donk betting range here is AJ/QQ-TT/55 and he folds QQ and AJ to the jam then it would be profitable, but i guess youre right, he might not do this with AJ
 
Mootizit

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I prefer flatting pre,as played just call the flop and reevaluate the turn or river.
 
WabiSabi

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Agree with flatting pre and hopefully bring in the blinds when were on the button and there are already cold callers.
 
Alucard

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Why should we flat here and play passive post flop where we would be folding 95% of the time vs cbets?
Heads up > fine I guess vs UTG range
We would be taking the initiative & could rep a nutted pre flop range & easily make better hands fold. It'd be a huge win if we fold out hands like 55-99, AJo/AQo & other SCs as well.
The UTG is shortstacked which I didn't notice at the time so 3betting here might not be correct but I'm not getting into pots to play vs 3 or 4 people to hit something good & continue. You'll be losing way more 3BB per hand like that than you'd do 3bet folding at this spot. This is without considering the times you take it down on pre/ on flop as well.
 
mbrenneman0

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95% of the time? We hit a favorable flop with 78s about 23% of the time. 5 handed, we only need to win 20% of the time to profit, not including implied odds. Thats why we call pre. Going headsup to the flop we don't have that same equity advantage.

We're not trying to win every hand. Were trying to maximize the ratio of money won to money lost.
 
Galmedic

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95% of the time? We hit a favorable flop with 78s about 23% of the time. 5 handed, we only need to win 20% of the time to profit, not including implied odds. Thats why we call pre. Going headsup to the flop we don't have that same equity advantage.

We're not trying to win every hand. Were trying to maximize the ratio of money won to money lost.



Well said! Where’s that quote from?
 
C

CuddlyBobcat30

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Maybe it's just my play style, but I think the 3-bet is good here some of the time. Why flat every time? When the flop comes down favoring your BTN calling range that can kill action. Not to mention putting UTG in a tough spot, pretty much forcing him to either fold or shove all in. Plus, if you don't 3-bet ever with semi bluffy hands, do you only 3-bet with Premiums? That's not predictable or anything.... If you're set mining it'd make more sense to call than with suited connectors..

As for the hand, I'd say all options are on the table. Don't like a fold, not overly happy with a shove but it'll do sometimes, and you can always just flat call planning to get it all in on the turn. On the plus side, if you flat the bet on the flop it keeps all of his bluffs in, and allows you one more street. It actually seems to me that if anything you might have more fold equity on the turn than on the flop, but who knows. You're only really behind sets, you probably have pretty good equity against a lot of the hands they could bet with. Not too sure though, I don't use all the data trackers and such very much.


But to answer your question directly: Calling the flop seems to be profitable. You have 12 outs, not including backdoor possibilities. I'd probably call in that situation. That's a pretty ideal flop for 3-betting suited connectors, don't 3-bet if you're hesitant about navigating later streets with a hand like that.
 
WabiSabi

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Suited connectors play better multi way with a higher spr which are two good reasons to flat pre.You have some suited one gappers that can make a good 3bet bluff vs an ep raise.
 
F

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PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 4.55, PFR: 4.55, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
BB: 99 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
UTG: 35 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
MP: 203.1 BB (VPIP: 34.97, PFR: 22.38, 3Bet Preflop: 1.67, Hands: 146)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.79, PFR: 13.86, 3Bet Preflop: 9.62, Hands: 103)
Hero (BTN): 106.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7s 8s
UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, CO calls 2 BB, Hero raises to 10 BB, fold, BB calls 9 BB, fold, fold

Flop : (24.5 BB, 2 players) 5s Jc Ts
BB bets 23 BB,

no hands but got to assume he's a fish. Calling flop hardly can ever be a profitable option right?

i would also have flatted the original bet just to get what would likely be a 5 handed 10bb pot with the suited connector. i don't know what the fish has or what would possess someone to pot bet in that board, but you've got 12 outs so ballpark 50/50 chance of winning the hand so why not reraise all in and hope he folds? if not you're flipping for ten bucks. there's likely no hand he has that can beat your straight or flush. at absolute worst he's got top two or flopped trips which would knock a couple of your outs off.


all that said, if it was my money i flat call pre and then fold to the big raise on the flop.
 
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