£10 NLHE 6-max: All in PF with 99. Sould I of flat 4bet?

SBTniceboard

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Only had a few hands on the guy but I found it strange he flatted first then after I 3bet thought he had a hand. Was I wrong to shove here?
Should I of Flat, Folded or was I correct to shove?
http://weaktight.com/r5536072

Thanks for advice
 
SBTniceboard

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What sort of range do most players have when they make moves like he did at 10NL?
 
fletchdad

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Seems real strange the way he played it. W/o reads I would probably want to just let it go here. You cant put a range on 10nl players as a whole.

In hindsight, you should note he will get AI pre with very questionable hands, and 99+, AQs+ is great for stacking this guy.
 
forsakenone

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I would have just called from the BB and play for a set.

If you played it right or just got lucky I don't know, there are plenty of factos that come into play here, like what's your image at the table for one.
 
fletchdad

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I would have just called from the BB and play for a set.

If you played it right or just got lucky I don't know, there are plenty of factos that come into play here, like what's your image at the table for one.


But putting in 22+% just to set mine? Plus his line is real strong, so you almost have to c/f on this flop all the time unless you know this guy spazzes like he actually does.. You could hope to flop an over pair and jam-c/r, or simply c/r any flop but w/o reads IDK if this makes sense. Well, I actually dont think it makes any sense.

To have to invest so much and give up when you dont hit your set....
 
forsakenone

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I would have called the original raise and not 3bet pre.

action goes like this D makes it 3x SB calls and we 3bet. There is no point in 3 betting here.

3 bet hands you are willing to stack with preflop, for 10nl lets say AK AKs AA KK QQ (although it depends on villain and position and action between us), call hands like 22+ to JJ for set value, 3bet sqz somethings that can flop postflop like A2s or 98s.

Small and medium pocket pairs are the worst to 3bet with because you most likely have to bluff postflop or hit a 2 outer.
 
fletchdad

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I would have called the original raise and not 3bet pre.

action goes like this D makes it 3x SB calls and we 3bet. There is no point in 3 betting here.

3 bet hands you are willing to stack with preflop, for 10nl lets say AK AKs AA KK QQ (although it depends on villain and position and action between us), call hands like 22+ to JJ for set value, 3bet sqz somethings that can flop postflop like A2s or 98s.

Small and medium pocket pairs are the worst to 3bet with because you most likely have to bluff postflop or hit a 2 outer.


Aha, I misunderstood you. Too early, not enough coffee......I thought you meant flat the 4 bet.
 
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Only had a few hands on the guy but I found it strange he flatted first then after I 3bet thought he had a hand. Was I wrong to shove here?
Should I of Flat, Folded or was I correct to shove?
http://weaktight.com/r5536072

Thanks for advice
99 4 handed is a good hand so i would 3bet here for value and to take control of the hand.....his 4bet is strange because usually he is 3betting his premium hands in this spot since he will play oop the rest of the hand...99 is ahead of his flat calling range..so i would have shoved here too
 
fletchdad

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Aha, I misunderstood you. Too early, not enough coffee......I thought you meant flat the 4 bet.


Looking back, I misunderstood nothing. I just didnt read the fukin post correctly, I must be losing my mind. It was clear what you meant, had I been paying attention...........

No more posting for me before enough coffee....
 
fletchdad

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99 4 handed is a good hand so i would 3bet here for value and to take control of the hand.....his 4bet is strange because usually he is 3betting his premium hands in this spot since he will play oop the rest of the hand...99 is ahead of his flat calling range..so i would have shoved here too


Read all the replies so far.

Do you want to stack off w/99 here? Do you want his worse hands to fold? Those are your 2 likely outcomes by 3 betting. You wont "take control" of the hand pre by 3 betting. You will fold out worse and get better to 4 bet and get calls from hands that can crush you post.

In this case that is not how the hand went, but you cant judge on hindsight...
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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hate flatting the 4bet.

his line makes no sense, he's always 3betting JJ+ for value so only hand you're worried about is TT and thats a bit thin, considering the fact when he's turning his hand into a bluff pre (which is a lot imo) and calls off with worse (flips count as worse) shoving seems fine.

if he sees us as a squeeze monkey and is capable of doing this with QQ+ for value then we need to adjust but im assuming there's no history or anything.

imo its fine.. especially when villains call off with 3 outs.
 
ChuckTs

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Looks fine to me. Nobody ever flats TT+ here and backraises. Like OMG said, sometimes TT, but that's rare, and most of the time you're getting it in with like %60 equity in my experience.

Depending on your reads the squeeze could be debatable, but in general it's fine. Stacking 99 pf shouldn't be a standard but I think it's fine given the weird backraise.
 
NineLions

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Playing much these days, Chuck? Good to see you poking your head into these strat sections.
 
SBTniceboard

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Thank all for the advice
I think in future I will flat oop PF even against the fish. Looking at it with fresh eyes now I think once I 3bet then my 5bet shove wasn't too bad, but I put myself in that sitsuation in the first place by 3betting. So mainly flatting from now on
Thanks all
 
ChuckTs

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Playing much these days, Chuck? Good to see you poking your head into these strat sections.

Hey NL, it's good to be back :) Yeah, playing as much as I can in my free time, and posting as much as I can too. Hope to kick my job within a month or two by way of playing full time again. Looking good thus far.
 
ChuckTs

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Thank all for the advice
I think in future I will flat oop PF even against the fish. Looking at it with fresh eyes now I think once I 3bet then my 5bet shove wasn't too bad, but I put myself in that sitsuation in the first place by 3betting. So mainly flatting from now on
Thanks all

Nonono!

You're 3betting because there is a fish in the middle. You WANT him to shove with 9Ts or call with 67s or 55 and similar hands.

3bet for value, and with a plan should you get 4bet.
 
SBTniceboard

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In this hand the BTN playing 26/17 was the raiser. Would it be wise to 3bet here with 99? He folded 50% to 3bets. If it's just HU with a total fish then I will 3bet for vaue but to be honest I know the BTN will be opening with a wide range but would it be wise to 3bet here or better to flat and try and flop a set? I find 9's awkard as they seen too weak to raise and yet to good just to try and set mine with but oop against someone who has half an idea how to play is going to make my life hard work on most boards
 
ChuckTs

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-He's opening a wide range that we have dominated
-He's only folding %50 of the range; ie we still dominate his continuing range
-There's a fish in the middle who's continuing range is crushed by 99
-There's lots of dead money in the middle

I know it can be a bit tough to play postflop, but this is what successful poker players do. They eke value from hands like these whereas struggling regs or recreational players will flat and try to flop a set or an overpair. It's simply just a less EV play to flat.

Widen your value range significantly when you have a fish calling in a squeeze spot.

Do you squeeze TT here? JJ? Why?

What's the difference between having JJ on 832r here vs having 99 given the same action?
 
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