€10 NLHE 6-max: AK in 4-bet pot, weird spot

56 hands on villain. I'm first to speak. Should I shove here? or c/f, c/c?

I'm thinking 99-AA will call, but 55-88, AQ-AK, KQ type hands will probably fold, and if I check I give him the chance to shove with all those hands which I can't reasonably call. I have no idea what his range for flatting 4bets is, I've seen people flat with AA but also with junk and fold to a cbet on an 8 high board.

CO: €9.75
BTN: €20.31
SB: €5.20
BB: €7.01
Hero (UTG): €10.15
MP: €17.95

SB posts SB €0.05, BB posts BB €0.10

Pre Flop: (€0.15) Hero has A:diamond: K:heart:

Hero raises to €0.35, fold, CO raises to €1.20, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to €3.25, CO calls €2.05

Flop: (€6.65, 2 players) 4:diamond: J:diamond: 8:club:
Hero ????

Jam

Whats the villains stats??

I probs call pre, but i dont really even like that b/c it sucks playing oop and feels weak as shit, if i 4bet i make it much bigger so that i can shove any flop i think.

As played I think that you have gave him too wide a range on the flop, you've basically given him a range of 55+ AQ+ and KQ, but i think when he calls your 4bet (which was a bit small imo) you can discount a lot of those hands.

Have been away for a while so i need to re-read about effective stacks but the villain has less than a psb left, i probably shove b/c he has less than a psb left and i would expect AA-KK..possibly even QQ to 5bet shove pre, so i put him on AQ+ possibly dumb smaller pairs and expect a fold a lot or to be called by another AK.

Hopefully someone comes in and tears this apart as i have been away for a while and i wouldnt wanna be passing on bad advice lol

Tough spot though

orangepeeleo said:

Whats the villains stats??

I probs call pre, but i dont really even like that b/c it sucks playing oop and feels weak as shit, if i 4bet i make it much bigger so that i can shove any flop i think.

As played I think that you have gave him too wide a range on the flop, you've basically given him a range of 55+ AQ+ and KQ, but i think when he calls your 4bet (which was a bit small imo) you can discount a lot of those hands.

Have been away for a while so i need to re-read about effective stacks but the villain has less than a psb left, i probably shove b/c he has less than a psb left and i would expect AA-KK..possibly even QQ to 5bet shove pre, so i put him on AQ+ possibly dumb smaller pairs and expect a fold a lot or to be called by another AK.

Hopefully someone comes in and tears this apart as i have been away for a while and i wouldnt wanna be passing on bad advice lol

Tough spot though

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Thought i had put the stats, sorry. Villain was 25/20/infinite some 50 or 60 hands IIRC.

We're thinking along the same lines, except I have seem KK+ flat 4bets before. Do you really think AK calls me here if I push?

Pascal, care to be more elaborate? Thanks

ComplexPlaya said:

Thought i had put the stats, sorry. Villain was 25/20/infinite some 50 or 60 hands IIRC.

We're thinking along the same lines, except I have seem KK+ flat 4bets before. Do you really think AK calls me here if I push?

Pascal, care to be more elaborate? Thanks

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Kinda worded it wrong, if i shove here i expect to be folded to the majority of the time, with the odd call from someone who cant fold AK.

I think a 25/20 shoves KK a huge majority of the time, unless you have some crazy metagame going on, i mean flatting KK to a 4bet does happen but not enough to be seeing monsters under the bed here imo and i'd need some past history of him flatting big PP to action pre.

Ship the nickels IMO.

I also usually make my 4-bets 2.5x or a shove. Any bigger than 2.5x and the potsize gets funny. Jamming is seriously an option here, as your opponent likely isn't good enough to figure out this is AK, and will still fold bad pairs we're flipping with.

c9h13no3 said:

Ship the nickels IMO.

I also usually make my 4-bets 2.5x or a shove. Any bigger than 2.5x and the potsize gets funny. Jamming is seriously an option here, as your opponent likely isn't good enough to figure out this is AK, and will still fold bad pairs we're flipping with.

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Yeah I jammed. Ran into AA ofc but I guess jamming is still the best options.

What pairs are we flipping with, we have 6 outs basically against a small pair no? and 2 backdoors but...

this guy is folding pairs if we jam?

ComplexPlaya said:

What pairs are we flipping with

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Preflop.

This is either a jam or a check/fold on the flop. And postflop, we're getting 2:1 on a jam. We've gotta have 30%ish equity between the times he folds and the times we suck out.

i'm leaning towards checking here (c/f). Having the A:diamond: helps a bit, and if it checks thru and turn comes A or K we're going to win money from hands that would have folded to our flop jam (eg. AQ).


he'll probably check back a reasonable % of the time with hands that beat us and would call our jam (eg. 99), so we can realize some of our equity on the turn, and sometimes (occasionally?) we'll be able to bluff on a later street.


this is all based on the assumption that he calls with pairs. if you think he's folding a reasonable % of his one-pair hands, then jamming is superior. i'm under the impression that he does not fold one-pair hands to a jam in this spot (operating under the busto stakes fish axiom of calling 4bets: "he probably has AK so i'll get it in if there's no A or K on the board"). then again, OP did say that he's seen people calling 4bets and folding on 8-high boards, so i'm not sure exactly how these games play and how valid my points are in these particular spots.