$10 NLHE 6-max: AK 4bet pot, paired board hit nut straight on river

bgomez89

bgomez89

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full tilt poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1197204
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $10.15
UTG: $9.30
CO: $12.90
Hero (BTN): $10.16
SB: $12.39

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with A
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K
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2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.50, SB calls $1.50

Flop: ($5.10) 5
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Q
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T
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(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($5.10) T
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(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($5.10) J
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(2 players)
SB bets $9.89 all in, Hero???

villain is a 17/14/80 over 35 hands so no real reads. Ugh, am I folding river?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Unlikely to be bluffing. So if you're calling it's to split and with the relatively small size of the pot (for a 4bet pot at least) I think it's a fold. You'll see more boats here than AK imo. Fold.
 
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baudib1

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wow what a sick spot.

i think in game I'd call this 100% and get shown QQ/JJ.

The problem for us is our hand looks exactly like we just made broadway.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Uhhh yeah what's with checking the flop? You want to draw in a 4-bet pot? sheesh. Just bet about $3 and then you have to call a shove I guess (or maybe not)

You'll take it down loads here though. As played insta-call, why does this have to be a boat why can't it be AT or KT or even K9? He called a 4-bet OOP which is really really weak so I'm not discounting those.
 
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mikejm

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yea i really don't see how this would be a boat. if he hit a set of queens why would he slow play in a 4bet pot. If he had pocket jacks wouldn't he have bet the turn after we check the flop. I honestly think we see AK or K9 a lot more than boats.
 
bgomez89

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Uhhh yeah what's with checking the flop? You want to draw in a 4-bet pot? sheesh. Just bet about $3 and then you have to call a shove I guess (or maybe not)

You'll take it down loads here though. As played insta-call, why does this have to be a boat why can't it be AT or KT or even K9? He called a 4-bet OOP which is really really weak so I'm not discounting those.

the reason why I checked was because sometimes i'm a weak/tight nit :p. But seriously, what does a 17/14 call a 4bet with OOP? I think we can definitely discount AT/KT. I was mostly scared of AQ/QQ/KK/AA/TT/KQ raising my cbet. AK/AJ(doubtful but maybe)/JJ/99/88 all prbably fold to a cbet which is good for me(maybe JJ calls).

I dont know i probably shouldve cbet but I really hate getting shoved on :p
 
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ComplexPlaya

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the reason why I checked was because sometimes i'm a weak/tight nit :p. But seriously, what does a 17/14 call a 4bet with OOP? I think we can definitely discount AT/KT. I was mostly scared of AQ/QQ/KK/AA/TT/KQ raising my cbet. AK/AJ(doubtful but maybe)/JJ/99/88 all prbably fold to a cbet which is good for me(maybe JJ calls).

I dont know i probably shouldve cbet but I really hate getting shoved on :p

A lot of crap. A hand they liked pre and couldn't press the fold button. If it was a strong hand they would shove no? Don't tell me they think you're 4-bet bluffing. AK is probably the top of that range and a lot of suited broadways and mid pairs I guess. AT and KT fit perfectly into that range, I can see K9s there too. Perfect flop for you because you have good equity, just bet

You should've called the river then you would've seen it :)
 
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ComplexPlaya

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If by "it" you mean a boat or another AK, I agree.

Just to be clear, you think calling a 4-bet OOP is a sign of strength?

Now you made me look for examples. I don't want to dig too deep to find calls from tags/nits so this is from a fish, but anyone that calls a 4-bet OOP is a fish at that very moment

SB: €21.34
BB: €22.93
Hero (UTG): €28.61
CO: €7.27
BTN: €20.00

SB posts SB €0.10, BB posts BB €0.20

Pre Flop: (€0.30) Hero has K:spade: A:spade:

Hero raises to €0.70, fold, BTN raises to €2.40, fold, BB calls €2.20, Hero raises to €7.90, fold, BB calls €5.50

Flop: (€18.30, 2 players) 7:diamond: 2:heart: 5:diamond:
BB checks, Hero bets €20.71 and is all-in, BB calls €15.03 and is all-in

Turn: (€48.36, 2 players) 6:diamond:

River: (€48.36, 2 players) 9:heart:

BB shows J:diamond: K:diamond: (Flush, King High) (PreFlop 29%, Flop 46%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows K:spade: A:spade: (High Card, Ace) (PreFlop 71%, Flop 54%, Turn 0%)
BB wins €45.95
 
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WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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I didn't say that but we have a little more info here, the river shove. Our hand looks exactly like what it is and yet he still shoves into us on the river. You think he's bluff shoving the river once the only hand we really ever have here makes the straight???
 
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ComplexPlaya

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I didn't say that but we have a little more info here, the river shove. Our hand looks exactly like what it is and yet he still shoves into us on the river. You think he's bluff shoving the river once the only hand we really ever have here makes the straight???

Why are you putting him on level 2 thinking, he's not thinking what Hero has at all or he wouldn't have called the 4-bet in the first place. It is a valid point to a degree but I don't think he wouldn't do same with AT/KT/K9s/QJ

What do you think he does with those hands ?
 
tenbob

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I flat 4 bets with AA/KK all the time :)

Yea, pain of a hand, In game i prob call unless he is a nit, but its its very likely a fold. Considering we are calling for a split :(

I bet $3 on the flop as well imo.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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I flat 4 bets with AA/KK all the time :)

And why is that? Do you get a lot of 4-bet / folds ? At what stakes? And finally, what's your WR with AA/KK, I never flat 4-bets with them so we can compare
 
tenbob

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And why is that? Do you get a lot of 4-bet / folds ? At what stakes? And finally, what's your WR with AA/KK, I never flat 4-bets with them so we can compare

nl$50+ but i'm pretty sure that everyone puts you on one hand when you flat a 4bet with 100bb stacks. Someone that would fold a range of 1010+, AQ+ to a 5 bet will stack it on a rag flop. I generally dont 4 bet small either though, I 4 bet shove the vast vast majority of the time.

I'll do a filter on it sometime, it will prob be tuesday though, remind me.
 
bgomez89

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I flat 4 bets with AA/KK all the time :)

Yea, pain of a hand, In game i prob call unless he is a nit, but its its very likely a fold. Considering we are calling for a split :(

I bet $3 on the flop as well imo.

when you bet the 3, we're b/f right?
 
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ComplexPlaya

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nl$50+ but i'm pretty sure that everyone puts you on one hand when you flat a 4bet with 100bb stacks. Someone that would fold a range of 1010+, AQ+ to a 5 bet will stack it on a rag flop. I generally dont 4 bet small either though, I 4 bet shove the vast vast majority of the time.

I'll do a filter on it sometime, it will prob be tuesday though, remind me.

No filter, just tell me your general win-rate with them because it's going to affect it imo.
 
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baudib1

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I think someone who plays 17/14 at micro 6-max is flatting precisely QQ-TT to 4-bets and not much else except the occasionally slowplayed KK-AA.

What's the oldest cliche in the book? "I put you on AK." That's why they do it. When we play our hand precisely like AK and we have AK, everyone will put you on it.

I left in one of the possible 3 combos each of AA and KK and nothing random/stupid like K9 or JT and it looks like a fold


Board: 5d Qc Ts Th Jd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 63.889% 38.89% 25.00% 7 4.50 { AcAs, KcKs, QdQh, QdQs, QhQs, JcJh, JcJs, JhJs, TcTd, AcKc, AdKd, AsKs, AcKd, AcKs, AdKc, AdKs, AsKc, AsKd }
Hand 1: 36.111% 11.11% 25.00% 2 4.50 { AhKh }
 
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baudib1

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Which is probably why you couldn't figure that out.
 
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baudib1

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Why are you putting him on level 2 thinking, he's not thinking what Hero has at all or he wouldn't have called the 4-bet in the first place.

NL10 villains put you on AK 100% of the time in this spot.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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NL10 villains put you on AK 100% of the time in this spot.

If that's really true then obv it's a fold, but how would you know that ? How could you know that?
 
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baudib1

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repeated from above

What's the oldest cliche in the book? "I put you on AK." That's why they do it. (flat 4-bets with QQ-TT) When we play our hand precisely like AK and we have AK, everyone will put you on it.
 
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