$10 NLHE 6-max: AJo pre vs maniac shove

fletchdad

fletchdad

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In the + - 70 hands he had shoved maybe 4 or 5 and not been looked up yet.

He has called and folded IP to raises as well, so I am putting his shoving range as not ATC. But he is a bad loose maniac.....


poker stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1704223
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP: $6.32 - VPIP: 60, PFR: 22, 3B: 40, AF: 6.0, Hands: 77
CO: $11.70 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 13, 3B: 6, AF: 2.7, Hands: 951
BTN: $6.32 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 13, 3B: 0, AF: 1.1, Hands: 117
SB: $19.44 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 2.9, Hands: 197
BB: $18.75 - VPIP: 34, PFR: 21, 3B: 13, AF: 2.0, Hands: 280
Hero (UTG): $12.81 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 12, 3B: 4, AF: 2.5, Hands: 200590

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with A :diamond: J :club:
Hero raises to $0.30, MP raises to $6.32, Hero ??
 
B

baudib1

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I don't open this hand UTG and I think calling here is meh.
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

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I don't open this hand UTG and I think calling here is meh.

Some think this is a snap call, I dont, so we agree there.

I looked in HEM for my hands this year, about 80 K and I am up 110 BB/100 with opening AJo UTG.

In 10 nl AJo is a profitable opener if the table is right, which it seems to be a lot...
 
Deco

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I fold, AJ isn't quite strong enough pre for me. I'd rather have a mid pocketpair.
This stoving isn't really an accurate portrayal of the situation as villain is likely not shoving the top 7% of his range (70 hands / 5 shoves) but how far we are behind tells us a lot.
We need to be up against a range of 15% before we so much as break the 50% barrier.


Hand 0: 36.797% { AJo }
Hand 1: 63.203% {7% (88+, ATs+, KTs+, AQo+) }

As crazy as this guy is a 21x 3bet is a big ask, AJ is probably on the cusp of what I won't call with. This is assuming his previous shoves have been on the same stack size and he hasn't doubled up at some point.
 
Deco

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These 3bets he's made have they all been shoves? He'd need to only have had 10 3bet oppurtunities which seems a bit low though and have never open shoved or shoved over limpers.

If his shoving is confined just to 3bets we're looking at a wider range and I'll call. Would be unusual but that 3bet% is huge so I thought I should. Also how many hands is it out of?
 
acky100

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Snap and im opening AJo UTG because of idiots like him at the table.
 
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baudib1

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Yeah I'm folding and not even worrying about it. To open AJo here you have to have 3 guys behind you who are almost never 3-betting and someone who can call with worse Ax from the blinds. Maybe that happens at 10 NL but I never played 10 NL. In general I avoid playing any offsuit Ax other than AQ/AK out of position.
 
Cafeman

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Yeah I'm folding and not even worrying about it. To open AJo here you have to have 3 guys behind you who are almost never 3-betting and someone who can call with worse Ax from the blinds. Maybe that happens at 10 NL but I never played 10 NL.
Happens at 50NL. The way I'm running atm, I'll let you know in a couple of weeks if it happens at 10NL, but I'm guessing yes.
 
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crazyg123

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I think it a fold as you say hes done this 4-5 out of 70 which is 6-8% of hands which either has you a slight dog or 30/70 imo as A10- is unlikely.+ i like to think easier money is made post flop at 10 nl and calling this type is going to tilt me and end up having my aiev line off from the green one. Maybe im wrong haha
 
c9h13no3

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I don't open this hand UTG and I think calling here is meh.
This is a pretty logical response. I don't fold, cuz folding sucks, but as baudib notes, this spot is pretty marginal.

And Deco's range is overly nitty as usual.

But the point here is that the guy is 3-betting like 40%. We're never opening a hand here unless we're willing to go to the mat.
 
Deco

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And Deco's range is overly nitty as usual.

I typed 7% into pokerstove. Villain had shoved 70 out of 5 hands preflop = 7%. I then warned people the range is a little tight as it's the top 7% whilst villains range may well be a little polarized. I then compared 15% for a more liberal comparison.

Dunno what else you can ask of me other than make up some random bluff hands which would if anything further illustrate my point that midpairs are better hands here as they fare far better vs random hands than AJ.

But the point here is that the guy is 3-betting like 40%. We're never opening a hand here unless we're willing to go to the mat.

Not necessarily. Villain is 3betting 40% of the time, not shoving 40% of the time. If villain has shoved (anything from an open shove to a 5bet) 5 times it should not alter how we treat his regular 3bets. If villains 3bets are small enough there are plenty of hands we can flat which crush a 40% 3bet range yet we wouldn't be keen to 4bet. AJ would be amongst them.
 
jbbb

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Happens at 50NL. The way I'm running atm, I'll let you know in a couple of weeks if it happens at 10NL, but I'm guessing yes.

Each and every one of your posts are comedy gold. Who's the girl in your avatar?
 
jbbb

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Also need to know if the 40% 3b is shoving or raising to make a real decision here.
 
c9h13no3

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Also need to know if the 40% 3b is shoving or raising to make a real decision here.
With crazy maniacs like this its super hard to tell. They may start out slow, but then just start shoving every hand. They're motivated by the rush that pushing you around brings, and as you adjust, they will need to go to greater and greater lengths to get you to fold. Therefore, I never play a hand with the intention of ever giving up, since their goal in just about every hand is to push you around.
 
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