$10 NLHE 6-max: AA vs a check-reraise

remus_ny

remus_ny

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poker stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players

UTG: $13.07 - VPIP: 12, PFR: 10, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, hands: 50
CO: $10.00 - VPIP: 0, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 4
Hero (BTN): $10.00 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 17, 3B: 5, AF: 3.8, Hands: 184523
SB: $10.05 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 13, 3B: 3, AF: 1.3, Hands: 93
BB: $11.11 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 19, 3B: 4, AF: 4.5, Hands: 294

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with :ah4: :as4:
1 fold, CO checks, Hero raises to $0.40, 1 fold, BB calls $0.30, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.85) :9d4: :kc4: :6d4: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.70, BB raises to $1.90, Hero calls $1.20

Turn: ($4.65) :jh4: (2 players)
BB bets $2.60, Hero calls $2.60

River: ($9.85) :3s4: (2 players)
BB bets $6.21, Hero ??? Set or what?
 
Deco

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Too many busted draws I'm calling, don't hate a fold.
I open 2-3x pre, when we steal so much from the btn we need to price it relatively cheap.
 
DaReKa

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Pretty tough spot, but he is very aggressive and the turn bet is kind of small. I think he's bluffing here enough to justify a call. 2.7:1 on the river. I'm interested to see what some better players think though.
 
Aces2w1n

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flush straight draw perhaps or a set ... hmmm QT and he decides to lower the raise on the turn to keep you calling?

Personally i'm either just going to hit hard to fold on the flop... If i'm running hot i'm pushing the whole way but if im down in the session i'll shutdown. perhaps a leak in my game but just tightening up when things don't go my way. Avoid to spew.
 
A

AvaloNNN

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Pretty tough spot. This really looks strong, but again his aggression factor is very high and we don't know anything about his aggression frequency which is far more relevant IMO. He could be bluffin' here, but It's very tough to give you the right advice , I guess we could argue for both, folding and calling.
Without any big reads (and you didn't mention any?) I think we should be able to let this one go.
 
M

micromoi

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i would a 4bet on the flop so u can just know if he has a maid hand or a draw, i hate the call u did give up control by calling and just put your self on a tough spot if u call on the turn its a must call on the river the 3 change nothing. the decision must be made on the turn, the jack help the hand Q10 of diamons, improved also QJ or J10 of diamons, i dont see any infos helping u making your decision.
 
AugustWest

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What would he call a 4X with from the button? And then x/r turn?
But then again, wouldn't he 3B if he's got KK?
Tough one, prolly a fold for me..

What is the difference between Aggression Factor vs Frequency
anyhow?
 
B

baudib1

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Sets are going to be fairly rare here as he's not flatting KK. Other hands that beat you are KJ/QTdd. River is probably close to 0 EV; if he ever flats AK OOP (going to be rare, TBH) or barrels off busted draws it's a mandatory call.
 
A

AvaloNNN

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What would he call a 4X with from the button? And then x/r turn?
But then again, wouldn't he 3B if he's got KK?
Tough one, prolly a fold for me..

What is the difference between Aggression Factor vs Frequency
anyhow?

A FREQUENCY = (bets + raises) / (bets + raises + checks + folds + calls)
A FACTOR = ( bets + raises) / (calls)

Aggression Frequency converges faster than Aggression Factor.
As you can see from the equation, AF doesn't take checks and folds into account, which represent a large number of player's actions, therefore you need a larger sample size of total hands for it to become meaningful. The point is: I wouldn't rely that much on AF, for me AFq is far better stat to have and more complete than AF.

AF can be tricky sometimes, especially in this case when we don't have a large sample size on our opponent, so we can't really tell he is a maniac just by looking at his AF number. AFq helps you make a better and more reliable decisions.
 
Nathan Williams

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I would 3bet the flop here all day versus this type of opponent. Fold the river as played.
 
Paragon

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4bet to gain information. Simple as that, because only then you will know if he has a set or 2 pair.
 
igySK

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I don't think it's ideal to 3bet the flop just to gain information, we can't fold if he shoves because of the possible draws in his range. You could've given us the "raise cbet" stat at least. I'd play the same but fold on the river. Not many 10nl regs are simply able to push the 3rd barrel here as a bluff.
 
Aleksei

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wtf are you doing 4xng the button!? Both blinds are tight, you're just completely unnecessarily polarizing yourself.

In practice I'll probably level myself into calling river because I just hate folding (huge leak), but I think river is a fold. Random brick river is terrible to bluff, so I don't think he's doing this with busted draws. Thus we're left with sets, 2pair and TP+FD.
 
J

js520

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Is it not standard to open to 4x when the CO has posted the blind which is effectively a limp?
 
S

ScottishMatt

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We are essentially isolating here so 4x is as standard as it gets.

As played river is a fold - he most likely isn't aggressive enough to fire this river with air
 
Yoshimiii

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4bet to gain information. Simple as that, because only then you will know if he has a set or 2 pair.

Lol this isn't the reason why you 3 bet the flop (not 4 bet), 3 betting for value and because villain can easily raise draws here but we aren't folding if he shoves.
 
Beanfacekilla

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K-x diamonds.

I think I would call.

I could be wrong, but I would pay him (if he has me beat).
 
Aleksei

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Is it not standard to open to 4x when the CO has posted the blind which is effectively a limp?
Maybe but I still hate it tbh. We have position on everyone so we don't need as badly to isolate, and 4xing allows people to show up a lot stronger OOP, because they're not forced to defend aggressively to prevent a cheap steal.

on the button with 1 live blind in front and two tight players in the blinds I'd probably raise it to like .32 or something.
 
H

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Triple barreling the blankety blank river polarizes his range to nuts or nothing. He's not doing this with any naked King. Only two pair hands that he calls with preflop are K9s and J9s, but c/r either in this spot is never 100%. 6s and 9s are also possible, though I'd probably expect a 3-bet with 9s. Let's add a backdoored Q10dd and I suppose 69s too. Taking into account all of those hands, we come up with 14 combinations of hands that beat us. When we add all sorts of Axdd, diamond suited connectors, 78s, etc to his range for bluffs, this is an insta-call. From his POV, we almost always have TPTK or similar, so triple barreling could blow us off the hand in his mind.
 
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swingro

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4bet to gain information. Simple as that, because only then you will know if he has a set or 2 pair.
How will you know that? What happens if he calls? Do you know he has 2 pairs, set or a K? You 3-bet for value or as a bluff. Information comes as the reaction of the opponent to your move. I mean his range will contract to hands that make sense. If he calls he could have all the the hands I just said plus some flush draws if he is a bad reg. If he shoves he has a set or a very strong draw. We estimate our equity against that range and decide our next move.

At the subject now. Fold the river. I do not think he will put his stack down with just a K. As played I belive he has KJ or QdTd. He will not check raise with a set to make you fold. He will donkbet with a set because of the flushdraw. He almost for sure hit his 2 pairs on the turn or the straight on the river.
Question: What if we 3-bet him on the flop and he shoves? IMO is a fold. I do not think regs at 10NL make the mistake to shove with a weak flush draw.
 
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Deco

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wtf are you doing 4xng the button!? Both blinds are tight, you're just completely unnecessarily polarizing yourself.

In practice I'll probably level myself into calling river because I just hate folding (huge leak), but I think river is a fold. Random brick river is terrible to bluff, so I don't think he's doing this with busted draws. Thus we're left with sets, 2pair and TP+FD.

I make it 5x myself with all my iso range as long as there's not a shorty.
We want to maximise the value we get from the generally fishy players who limp and their generally capped weak range.
 
Aleksei

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No guarantees the fish sticks around; he didn't actually limp he posted live blind.
 
Deco

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No guarantees the fish sticks around; he didn't actually limp he posted live blind.

Ye I mean in general when iso'ing. But I think the same thing applies to an extent with posted blinds as only fish do it and by checking they've capped thier range even more than limping.
 
Aleksei

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Ye I mean in general when iso'ing. But I think the same thing applies to an extent with posted blinds as only fish do it and by checking they've capped thier range even more than limping.
So then aren't they gonna usually fold to a huge iso raise?
 
Deco

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So then aren't they gonna usually fold to a huge iso raise?

Same conditions as the limp, we get exactly the same weak hands calling us to play bigs pots with position on a fish we just get a bit more fold equity.

The intent of my iso's are very rarely for the fold equity but to play a well sized pot with a fish, the fold equity is just an added bonus. Reducing my sizing would get me a smaller pot size vs the fish and a greater likelihood of regs coming along.
Don't get me wrong the difference between 4x and 5x is likely trivial but I think 3x will get us significantly less value from the fish and more regs coming along.
 
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