$10 NLHE 6-max: A.10s TP w/ Flush draw

$10 NL HE 6-max: A.10s TP w/ Flush draw

Full Tilt, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
Hero (UTG): $10.19 (101.9 bb)
MP: $10 (100 bb)
CO: $4.79 (47.9 bb)
BTN: $12.51 (125.1 bb)
SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10.86 (108.6 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is UTG with A T
MP posts BB out of position, CO posts a dead SB, CO posts BB out of position, Hero raises to $0.50, MP calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40, 2 folds, BB calls $0.40
Flop: ($2.10) 5 7 A (4 players)
BB bets $1.80, Hero calls $1.80, MP folds, CO calls $1.80
Turn: ($7.50) A (3 players)
BB bets $7.50, Hero....

So the situation is that I've only been at this table for 10 or so hands and the two guys to my left just posted out of turn. I don't always lead out UTG w/ A.10s, but I thought it was a good hand to raise with and scoop up the blinds on the table; move on.

On the flop I was considering raising, but wasn't sure what the right move was... if you guys are raising there can you let me know why, and how much?

Plan for the rest of the hand?

Well... I would go all in.. (very agressive) if CO calls, that's because he got an excelent hand and I'm screwed.. BB calls and the rest the river will decide. =) that it would be my move.. i think it is not the best move. wait for more answers. =)

Interesting hand, I'm looking forward to other responses.

BB's range is enormous before the flop, he's priced to call w virtually ATC. The flop narrows his range of course - Ax, fd (obv not the nut fd), straight draw, 2 pair, sets, and middle pp's (I'm always surprised by how many times donk bets turn out to be 88-JJ).

Most of the time I look to isolate in a multiway pot if I'm going to continue past the flop, but here I think I like the call. With the nut fd (I'm not counting on the tp being good), I think I'd like more money in the pot and think I'm happy to have CO call. There aren't a ton of turn cards that are all that scary, though I won't be happy if the board pairs or a straight looks likely.

The turn isn't a good card once BB bets pot, hard to imagine he's doing that w a draw, I think we've lost the fd outs and are down to three (if he has the case A) or four outs. Other than a made full house, he could also be making this bet w Ax, so we're not necessarily behind, but I think we're very frequently behind (of course, if he's playing say AQ and was just making a goofy donk bet, our fd outs are in play).

Nonetheless, I don't think I'm folding trips here, I'm shoving - hence my interest in other responses, since I can't reconcile my logic . Note that once we get to the turn, I'm very much regretting not raising the flop, maybe enough to change my mind that flatting was a good idea.

If someone else has a higher ace that just really really really sucks. But you still have 9 outs even if his Ace is higher.

You definitely want as much money in the pot as possible so I would wait till 2 seconds before time and FLAT CALL. You know for a fact that the BB and you are putting the other 1.50 you each have left into the pot on the flop anyway, maybe just maybe if you hesitate long enough the player behind you will call as well.

As for raising on the flop...I thought about it too but BB came in strong and I want to know how he acts after the turn. I think the call is good in hindsight since the bet from BB should serve the purpose of folding the chasers and 2nd pairs.

slycbnew I agree with most of what you said but many times I see players GAIN confidence when a second Ace or King hits the board. They are almost thinking "no way he has trips" so I would not be surprised if BB is holding 88 or 99.

I'm not sure I'd fold here. If anything, I'd be weary of the BB possibly tripping low pair on the flop, though I'm not sure anyone would shove there with a full house. Maybe BB has better kicker? I suppose it depends on previous hands, yours and BB stats to get a clearer picture.

I'd lose a read or even the stats gathered from those ten hands on the BB to determine if he'll call a turn raise with worse.

Without said read though chances are he won't.
I'm calling the turn. I'll call the river if it bricks and raise the river if we hit our flush.

Lovin' the flat call on the flop.

Turn is almost an auto-shove plus his bet of $7.50 on the turn commits your stack. He'll show up with a flopped set/turned boat a small percentage of time, hard to see someone jamming their boat like that unless only to trap an ace.

I'd assume we have the best hand a large % of time here, crushing hands like A6, A8, A9, any big flush draws (8h 6h) or if were beat we'd see AJ/AQ, but we have 8 outs to a flush, 3 outs to a 10, and 6 outs to a chop.

Wouldn't be a bad all in on the turn in my opinion.

Interesting, tough spot...

I'll say fold.

I'm going to have a tough time saying anything smart about it for two reasons: 1) I'm not very smart 2) I'm folding out of confusion.

We're facing a decision for most of our stack, in a multi-way pot, with another player left to act (which has been quietly calling along [which I don't like]), against an opponent who is acting like he flopped a set/two pair and turned a full. Without reads, we're getting too much information that we are behind. I don't think the price is right to try for our outs.

Deco said:

I'd lose a read or even the stats gathered from those ten hands on the BB to determine if he'll call a turn raise with worse.

Without said read though chances are he won't.
I'm calling the turn. I'll call the river if it bricks and raise the river if we hit our flush.

Click to expand...

Raise with what? I think calling the turn leaves us w/ 39 cents.

Double-A said:

Raise with what? I think calling the turn leaves us w/ 39 cents.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's definitely fold or shove the turn.

Timmy makes a good point - why a full psb on the turn if he's got 55 or 77? Sure looks like he's protecting against a fd.

Still worried about Ax w a better kicker though...

I thought about this and I think raising the flop is better for getting value from other FD's and worse Aces and possibly other random crap that he may have just donk bet for no reason

I also have a lot of equity in this hand as my 10's and any hearts probably win the hand if I am actually behind.

If he doesn't have a flush draw and a heart hits the turn, I'm probably getting very little/if any money out of him.

I've been meaning to put this into pokerstove, but I just haven't had the chance.

The one reason I called in the moment was b/c I had the feeling CO would call and that would give me odds, but I'm not even sure that is correct, b/c if they don't have a worse FD I'm probably not making up the odds very often.

Anyway by the turn I'm sure I'm beat sometimes, but I think a call (all-in for me basically) isn't all that incorrect. There are the times he's got somewhat of a hand and is trying to push me off a flush draw, or that he has worse Ax hands, or possibly bluffing w/ the FD himself.

I think my outs plus the times my 10's are good might make up the difference.

Eh whatever, I think I should be raising the flop.

Ok after thinking bout this a bit more, there is in my mind a lesser chance that he is holding a boat.

I just don't think flush draw type hands would follow along on the turn chasing it down for a pot sized bet.

And bluffing with a flush draw himself is probably not going to be very successful unless he the 2nd ace makes it less likely one of you two have an ace. It would be a pretty rough spot to bluff.

My educated guess is he definately has an Ace here, betting against the flush draw. PROBABLY AJ if your beat, I can see a good player 3-bet AQ+ in the BB PF to collect/isolate all the dead money. Otherwise your miles ahead of a worse off Ace.

Also, your smooth call on the flop somewhat masks the strength of your hand, whereas a strong ace would come over the top on the flop bet to protect itself from the FD, by just smooth call your hand is definately misrepresented. He probably doesn't give you much credit for a strong hand.

CO would almost never have smoothed call with a set in position with a FD on the flop. He most likely is drawing, you calling on the turn might give him the idea that he would be getting 3-1 on a FD when in fact he would probably be near dead.

Get the money in I say!

Double-A said:

2) I'm folding out of confusion.

Click to expand...

I just caught this - very smart against fish, when I'm confused they usually have the nuts - I tend to turn into a calling station against a better player when the line doesn't make sense to me...

No reads here on villain, so my comment isn't relevant to this hand...

Double-A said:

Raise with what? I think calling the turn leaves us w/ 39 cents.

Click to expand...

Ye didnt notice the stacks.
In that case we get it in on the turn.

I think were best a good portion of the time and when were not we have at least 12outs.
Heck were gettin 2 to 1 which is almost enough on its own.
Nevermind that we may get another caller and have the best hand a good chunk of the time.

Because there are so many responses already I did not read them.

My opinion:

2 people are posting in this hand (oop), there already is .35 in the pot before you entered, your pf raise should have been larger, .60 or .70, hope to take the blinds down, with so many in you are giving implied odds for a big action pot so they are all going to call this raise.

You flop top pair with nut flush draw, bb bets $1.80 so there should now be $3.85 in the pot. This is your biggest mistake imo, you should not have smooth called here, it looks like you are on a draw and I have a feeling villain has an A and hits a boat on you with his lower kicker. You raised pf, do not relinquish control of this pot, you should have reraised. If you double his bet then you have very little left over so reraise ai and hope to take the pot down now or at least hope to isolate. Better to win a small pot than lose a big one. Your smooth calling gives the other player pot odds to get in as well. Right now you have a great draw, but if you don't hit your heart or pair your T then that's all you have is a pair and you are allowing 2 villains to catch up and pass you. The turn and river don't matter at this point because your money should have gone in on the flop.