$10 NLHE 6-max: 97s 3bet Pot, How to Best Extract Value?

bgomez89 · Apr 29, 2020

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
SB ($10.26) [VPIP: 42.9% | PFR: 14.3% | AGG: 50% | hands: 7]
BB ($22.64) [VPIP: 42.5% | PFR: 30.7% | AGG: 46.6% | Flop Agg: 48.8% | Turn Agg: 44% | River Agg: 45.5% | 3-Bet: 17.4% | Fold to 3-Bet: 0% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 132]
UTG ($10.23) [VPIP: 57.1% | PFR: 28.6% | AGG: 66.7% | Hands: 14]
HERO ($19.56) [VPIP: 23.1% | PFR: 18.8% | AGG: 32.6% | Flop Agg: 43.6% | Turn Agg: 26% | River Agg: 16.9% | 3-Bet: 5% | 4-Bet: 9.3% | Hands: 1897]
CO ($13.46) [VPIP: 28.7% | PFR: 22% | AGG: 29.7% | Hands: 153]
BTN ($10) [VPIP: 30.3% | PFR: 21.1% | AGG: 32.4% | Hands: 232]

Dealt to Hero: 9:heart: 7:heart:

UTG Folds, HERO Raises To $0.30, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Raises To $0.60, HERO Calls $0.30

Hero SPR on Flop: [15.17 effective]
Flop ($1.25): 5:diamond: 6:diamond: Q:heart:
BB Bets $0.60 (Rem. Stack: $21.44), HERO Calls $0.60 (Rem. Stack: $18.36)

Turn ($2.45): 5:diamond: 6:diamond: Q:heart: 8:diamond:
BB Checks, HERO ???

Villain seems like a bad LAG, almost a maniac. That being said, thoughts on the flop float? I was hoping to see what he does on the turn and/or pick up equity but I ended up binking the straight.

Given the stats though, should we be betting this turn or checking?

gustav197poker · Apr 30, 2020

In preflop you must defend your position. Against a small OP 2x increase this deserves a 3bet at 4x. Let him know that you are in control of the position. And that a minimum increase does not scare you. If we receive another offensive this becomes an exploitative fold. (Line V of 4bet is unlikely, according to a small sample of hud) In this way it is possible to eliminate places that may be somewhat unbalanced in the post flop.
As played in PF, on the flop we call and on the turn we must induce bluffs in range V. We reach the top of our range. We block all the straights and a flush draw line opens on the board.
There are really few dominated values that we can extract in the V range.
Any bet donk would wake up all the alarms, especially if it is an unusual application in hero.
I think the bet / jam line can make sense on the river, only if the fifth lane is not another diamond. Because this aggressive villain could protect any mid-scale set, which eventually played slow on the turn. He could also protect 2 top pairs, especially if they can block the flush line on the river.
The idea of x / x on the turn is to accumulate mean values in range V, which have the ability to generate fold equity in hero and then transform into bluff catchers, maximizing the mdf for an open range.
Greetings.

fundiver199 · Apr 30, 2020

On the flop I would certainly not fold, but you could consider to take a bad draw like this and play it agressively with a raise. It depends a little on reads and dynamics, because as you say, this guy is almost a maniac. So if for example he will come over the top a lot as a bluff, then that is not great, since it will push you off your equity.

On the turn there is no reason to assume, checking back will induce a lot of river bluffs, and that this is more profitable than simply betting for value, when you likely have the best hand. There are also a lot of bad board runouts for you, so its totally fine to take it home with a bet now. Another diamond will suck really badly, and a 7, 9 or board pair is also not great.

c0rnBr34d · Apr 30, 2020

I don't like pre flop. If this was an adjustment to a table full of super nits maybe we can print like this but against wide and aggressive Vs it seems to be asking for trouble. Our PFR says 19% but 97s is not in a 19% range (T9s isn't even in there), especially UTG+1. Fold pre the first time and the second time. Don't see how playing 9 high OOP against an aggressive V can be profitable in a 3 bet pot.

As played I like flop and I'm definitely pounding turn hard as there will be tons of river cards that can kill the action or kill our hand or both. If we get x/r'd calling down clean run outs.

fundiver199 · Apr 30, 2020

c0rnBr34d said:
I don't like pre flop. If this was an adjustment to a table full of super nits maybe we can print like this but against wide and aggressive Vs it seems to be asking for trouble.

It is 6-max though, so hero is opening from HJ, where 97s is at least close. But sure on a table like this, where nearly everyone is loose and aggressive, some even bordering on maniac territory, it is probably better to go a little bit in the opposite direction and nit up. Its amazing, how different games play, because full ring on pokerstars these days are full of fish and SLPs like a 52/7 or a 33/8, and there is an enormous amount of limping going on.

bgomez89 · Apr 30, 2020

gustav197poker said:
In preflop you must defend your position. Against a small OP 2x increase this deserves a 3bet at 4x. Let him know that you are in control of the position. And that a minimum increase does not scare you. If we receive another offensive this becomes an exploitative fold. (Line V of 4bet is unlikely, according to a small sample of hud) In this way it is possible to eliminate places that may be somewhat unbalanced in the post flop.
As played in PF, on the flop we call and on the turn we must induce bluffs in range V. We reach the top of our range. We block all the straights and a flush draw line opens on the board.
There are really few dominated values that we can extract in the V range.
Any bet donk would wake up all the alarms, especially if it is an unusual application in hero.
I think the bet / jam line can make sense on the river, only if the fifth lane is not another diamond. Because this aggressive villain could protect any mid-scale set, which eventually played slow on the turn. He could also protect 2 top pairs, especially if they can block the flush line on the river.
The idea of x / x on the turn is to accumulate mean values in range V, which have the ability to generate fold equity in hero and then transform into bluff catchers, maximizing the mdf for an open range.
Greetings.

I don't think 4betting is a good idea at all given the stats on villain

c0rnBr34d said:
I don't like pre flop. If this was an adjustment to a table full of super nits maybe we can print like this but against wide and aggressive Vs it seems to be asking for trouble. Our PFR says 19% but 97s is not in a 19% range (T9s isn't even in there), especially UTG+1. Fold pre the first time and the second time. Don't see how playing 9 high OOP against an aggressive V can be profitable in a 3 bet pot.

As played I like flop and I'm definitely pounding turn hard as there will be tons of river cards that can kill the action or kill our hand or both. If we get x/r'd calling down clean run outs.

fundiver199 said:
It is 6-max though, so hero is opening from HJ, where 97s is at least close. But sure on a table like this, where nearly everyone is loose and aggressive, some even bordering on maniac territory, it is probably better to go a little bit in the opposite direction and nit up. Its amazing, how different games play, because full ring on PokerStars these days are full of fish and SLPs like a 52/7 or a 33/8, and there is an enormous amount of limping going on.

The two guys behind me are bad regs and everyone was basically trying to only get involved in pots with the main villain. My raise is probably a bit loose but I wasn't too attached to the hand.

gustav197poker · Apr 30, 2020

bgomez89 said:
I don't think 4betting is a good idea at all given the stats on villain

The two guys behind me are bad regs and everyone was basically trying to only get involved in pots with the main villain. My raise is probably a bit loose but I wasn't too attached to the hand.

Your preflop aggression factor is more credible than villain's. If you decide a duel with open ranges, pay attention to the bet sizes. 2x is just an attempt at dominance OOP. And against this depolarization it is preferable to clarify the picture now, because this is more economically beneficial in the long term, than if for example the villain completes the flush on the river. You will lose more times if you continue with the neutralized position.

bgomez89 · Apr 30, 2020

I have position on villain and can control the pot size so I'm not at a huge disadvantage by calling the min raise. To me, 4betting here seems weird if I don't think he'll fold and just inflates the pot when I have a marginal hand

Aballinamion · Apr 30, 2020

bgomez89 said:
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
SB ($10.26) [VPIP: 42.9% | PFR: 14.3% | AGG: 50% | Hands: 7]
BB ($22.64) [VPIP: 42.5% | PFR: 30.7% | AGG: 46.6% | Flop Agg: 48.8% | Turn Agg: 44% | River Agg: 45.5% | 3-Bet: 17.4% | Fold to 3-Bet: 0% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 132]
UTG ($10.23) [VPIP: 57.1% | PFR: 28.6% | AGG: 66.7% | Hands: 14]
HERO ($19.56) [VPIP: 23.1% | PFR: 18.8% | AGG: 32.6% | Flop Agg: 43.6% | Turn Agg: 26% | River Agg: 16.9% | 3-Bet: 5% | 4-Bet: 9.3% | Hands: 1897]
CO ($13.46) [VPIP: 28.7% | PFR: 22% | AGG: 29.7% | Hands: 153]
BTN ($10) [VPIP: 30.3% | PFR: 21.1% | AGG: 32.4% | Hands: 232]

Dealt to Hero: 9♥ 7♥

UTG Folds, HERO Raises To $0.30, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Raises To $0.60, HERO Calls $0.30

Hero SPR on Flop: [15.17 effective]
Flop ($1.25): 5♦ 6♦ Q♥
BB Bets $0.60 (Rem. Stack: $21.44), HERO Calls $0.60 (Rem. Stack: $18.36)

Turn ($2.45): 5♦ 6♦ Q♥ 8♦
BB Checks, HERO ???

Villain seems like a bad LAG, almost a maniac. That being said, thoughts on the flop float? I was hoping to see what he does on the turn and/or pick up equity but I ended up binking the straight.

Given the stats though, should we be betting this turn or checking?

Hi bgomez89, thank you very much for sharing with us.

The Preflop

Well, in the first place, I believe that if you raising combos as 97s from the MP you are raising way too many hands out of position. This is a particular problem of the micro-stakes, regulars tend to over-do a lot of basic concepts, so we see by experience that they are going to over-fold, over-call, over value their own range, etc.
Players are weak enough, so when we got a situation where we have good hands plus good bluffs and we decided to bet or raise, they are going to level, if they believe they also possess a decent piece of equity.
This is the reason that until 100 NLHE, for example, I see no reason to be raising such combos out of position, because it will put me in a lot of complicated scenarios and I will be forced to bluff or fold in spots I don't want to do it.
Now, of course, if you really had the feeling that you could make the 3-bettor out of position to fold/to be overplayed postflop, your move is fine.
I will not try to bluff this particular combo in this scenario, I wouldn't even call 3-bet or c-bet flop without any chance of fold equity equity postflop. Thanks.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

fundiver199 · May 1, 2020

bgomez89 said:
I have position on villain and can control the pot size so I'm not at a huge disadvantage by calling the min raise. To me, 4betting here seems weird if I don't think he'll fold and just inflates the pot when I have a marginal hand

I agree. 4-betting 97s against someone like this would be absolutely terrible. As you say, he is not going to fold. Since he is 3-betting 17% of the time, we can 4-bet light for value, but 97s is obviously not for value. Once you open, there is no other play to be made preflop than just calling his silly raise and take a flop. With his stats and sizing this guy is 100% a recreational player, and we dont bluff recreational players, when they have shown any kind of strength. They are playing to have fun, not to make big hero folds.

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$10 NLHE 6-max: 97s 3bet Pot, How to Best Extract Value?

bgomez89

Resident Thugmaster

gustav197poker

Legend

fundiver199

Legend

c0rnBr34d

Visionary

fundiver199

Legend

bgomez89

Resident Thugmaster

gustav197poker

Legend

bgomez89

Resident Thugmaster

Aballinamion

Sleeping with the Dark Lady of the Sith

fundiver199

Legend

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