$10 NLHE 6-max: 7bet shoving AKo preflop!

6

6bet me

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10NL 6-max zoom on pokerstars. Both villains are unknown.

BTN: $21.54
SB: $17.66
BB: $16.68
UTG: $9.16
Hero (MP): $17.16
CO: $2.99

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with K:club: A:spade:
UTG raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.70, 3 folds, BB raises to $1.20, UTG calls $1, Hero raises to $3.60, BB calls $2.40, UTG raises to $9.16 all in, Hero raises to $17.16 all in

What do you think about the way hero played this hand?
 
TimovieMan

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I just call the 4-bet and see a flop.

BB cold-4-bet. That's a VERY strong sign.
Once UTG calls, but comes back to life after the 5-bet, you can be 100% sure he's got a pocket pair (not necessarily AA/KK though). That alone makes you a dog.
With the strength BB showed earlier (and with him staying in the hand), he's going to likely have AK as well here or another strong PP.

I wouldn't have 5-bet, and frankly, facing that big of a 6-bet, I'd be looking to get out, not shove. Feels like spew. Especially since I doubt BB is folding anything he has at this point.
 
IPlay

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Lol, fold/flat cold 4 bet, probably fold
 
6

6bet me

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You guys don't see this tiny raise sizing as weak? A standard 4bet war would be something like this:
3x open raise -> 3bet to 10bb -> 4bet to 22bb
Instead, this was played like:
2x open raise -> 3bet to 7bb -> 4bet to 12bb
I interpreted both the 2x open raise UTG and the min 4bet as weak and fishy. I gave them much wider ranges than I would have given them if they'd chosen more normal raise sizes.

After that, the initial preflop raiser flat-calls 10bb more (another sign of weakness) and then later decides to shove once he realises that calling the 5bet would make himself pot committed anyway.

The min 4bettor decides to flat-call my 4bet (another sign of weakness) rather than 5betting.

I just didn't put them on strong hands because of the sizing of their raises and their action. I was thinking maybe they have AK or mid pocket pairs at best, of which case it would be profitable for me to shove over the top. I definitely didn't put them on AA/KK.
 
TimovieMan

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I just didn't put them on strong hands because of the sizing of their raises and their action. I was thinking maybe they have AK or mid pocket pairs at best, of which case it would be profitable for me to shove over the top. I definitely didn't put them on AA/KK.
Actually, I've seen many instances of AA/KK just minraising out of fear that you would fold. It's not that out of the ordinary.
 
6

6bet me

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This is one of those hands which I don't think any of us could predict. At the time of shoving, I put the villains on a range of hands along the lines of {AK, 99-QQ}. I didn't put them on KK+ (for reasons described above), but I did think that they were fairly strong.

Both villains stacked off preflop. This is what they showed up with:
Villain 1 (UTG) showed A7s
Villain 2 (BB) showed 66
BOOM Hand Replayer
 
B

beckyg89

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Against an unknown I think he is cold betting 4 betting AA KK for sure And only maybe Ak QQ. So I'm definitely not 5 betting AK as were most of the time behind. You were getting 2 to 1 on a call so I think it could be okay to call and see if you could find an ace or King on the flop. It's also good to just fold to the 4bet pre. I think I like the second option better.
 
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Probably fold to the cold 4-bet. UTG opened, you 3-bet from MP, and the BB cold 4-bet you. I don't think people are going to try to level you here into thinking that it's such a strong line, and make you fold premium hands. I think you're just being pretty results-oriented. There could be some merit in flatting since the UTG fish came along, and you're getting a very good price. Even then, you will 100% have RIO against his value range, unless you flop an A against his KK. I don't think people are bluffing here often at all.

And sometimes fish will min 4-bet/5-bet premium hands, especially AA. I once tank-folded KK to a min 5-bet and was correct.

Think about it. His line looks so strong, and he might just be trying to induce with AA. He might be thinking he wants to get value from QQ/JJ (which would almost always fold to a large 4-bet), or get AK to spaz.

I don't get the hype about Pokerstars being great players, really. I've watched a bunch of Nanonoko's 25NL-100NL Zoom, and even there they aren't that strong. Sure, they might be the best site in terms of difficulty overall, but not by how much people claim their difficulty to be. I've been looking at a lot of your hand history posts too, which further back up my previous beliefs. They just don't play their hands very well lol.
 
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Aces2w1n

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shoving or folding

dont like shoving against their strength

that given flatting is not the best either ... fold
 
Beanfacekilla

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10NL 6-max zoom on PokerStars. Both villains are unknown.

BTN: $21.54
SB: $17.66
BB: $16.68
UTG: $9.16
Hero (MP): $17.16
CO: $2.99

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with K<font color='black'>♣</font> A<font color='black'>♠</font>
UTG raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.70, 3 folds, BB raises to $1.20, UTG calls $1, Hero raises to $3.60, BB calls $2.40, UTG raises to $9.16 all in, Hero raises to $17.16 all in

What do you think about the way hero played this hand?

Lol. 7-bet, ha ha.

Either call 4b or fold.
 
Shaetano

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Ok, i'm following this train of thought:

both villains are unknown, so we'll follow a standard way of approaching.
UTG seems to have a smaller made pair, based on his behaviour, but seems to be willing to raise in early position, so i wouldn't count him out.
BB re-raises though, so he represents a big made pair, which makes us always behind (if UTG has a pair as well, we're substantially behind).

I'd call the re-raise, and evaluate the flop (critically)...
I wouldn't fold this one pre-flop, though.
 
TimovieMan

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BB re-raises though, so he represents a big made pair, which makes us always behind (if UTG has a pair as well, we're substantially behind).
Nope. If there's two different pocket pairs out there (QQ and 99, for instance), then the QQ hand is favourite, but it's the 99 hand that's substantially behind. We're still doing ok with our preflop equity:

AKo = 36.39%
QQ = 45.21%
99 = 18.40%

If it's KK+ out there, we're in trouble, of course.
 
Shaetano

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Nope. If there's two different pocket pairs out there (QQ and 99, for instance), then the QQ hand is favourite, but it's the 99 hand that's substantially behind. We're still doing ok with our preflop equity:

AKo = 36.39%
QQ = 45.21%
99 = 18.40%

If it's KK+ out there, we're in trouble, of course.

You're right, i had specified perhaps too high a range for BB (especially after checking the outcome :eek: )...
 
Figaroo2

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This is why I don't play zoom, its just an aggressive guessing game.
I think it prudent to call the 4 bet. You close the betting and its only costing you 50c to win $3.10 or 6-1 at that point.
If you were up against KK and QQ we still have 25% equity which clearly covers the 6-1 and we are in position.
We are only really stuffed by AA and UTG probably 5 bets that so he doesn't have it, sometimes fish will raise small in the BB with aces as a pot sweetner but at 10nl... meh not usually and we have the blocker.
 
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