$10 NLHE 6-max: 2 hands (QQ on K high flop, calling 3 bet w/ AQ)

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teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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Trying to play a little more straight forward, let me know if I'm too passive or loose!!

HAND ONE
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
SB ($21.08) [VPIP: 45.7% | PFR: 7.9% | AGG: 22.9% | 3-Bet: 5% | hands: 127]
BB ($18.85) [VPIP: 35.8% | PFR: 23.9% | AGG: 26.7% | 3-Bet: 10.5% | Hands: 67]
HJ ($10) [VPIP: 18.5% | PFR: 13% | AGG: 33.3% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 55]
HERO ($10.05) [VPIP: 29.4% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 39.8% | 3-Bet: 4% | Hands: 874]
BTN ($3.79) [VPIP: 60% | PFR: 20% | AGG: 26.1% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 46]

Dealt to Hero: Q Q

HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $0.35, BTN Calls $0.35, SB Folds, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.05 effective]
Flop ($0.85): 9 K 8
HERO Checks, BTN Checks

Turn ($0.85): 9 K 8 J
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $0.81 (Rem. Stack: 2.63), HERO Calls $0.81 (Rem. Stack: 8.89)

River ($2.47): 9 K 8 J 4
HERO Checks, BTN Checks

BTN shows: A J

HERO wins: $2.34

HAND TWO

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
BB ($22.14) [VPIP: 45.7% | PFR: 7.9% | AGG: 22.9% | 3-Bet: 5% | Hands: 127]
UTG ($17.81) [VPIP: 35.8% | PFR: 23.9% | AGG: 26.7% | 3-Bet: 10.5% | Hands: 67]
HJ ($7.66) [VPIP: 18.5% | PFR: 13% | AGG: 33.3% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 55]
HERO ($11.88) [VPIP: 29.4% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 39.8% | 3-Bet: 4% | Hands: 874]
BTN ($9.14) [VPIP: 38.2% | PFR: 23.5% | AGG: 21.4% | 3-Bet: 11.8% | Hands: 34]
SB ($4.67) [VPIP: 24% | PFR: 4% | AGG: 42.9% | 3-Bet: 6.7% | Hands: 25]

Dealt to Hero: Q A

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $0.35, BTN Calls $0.35, SB Raises To $1.50, BB Folds, HERO Calls $1.15, BTN Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [0.92 effective]
Flop ($3.45): A J 5
SB Bets $2.44 (Rem. Stack: 0.73), HERO Calls $2.44 (Rem. Stack: 7.94)

Turn ($8.33): A J 5 J
SB Bets $0.73 (allin), HERO Calls $0.73 (Rem. Stack: 7.21)



River ($9.79): A J 5 J Q

SB shows: K K

HERO wins: $9.25
 
F

fundiver199

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The first hand with QQ is absolutely perfect. The result clearly illustrate the value in checking out of position with a middling pair like this. You not only induce him to bluff, but even to sometimes value own himself on the turn.

The second hand with AQo I would just fold to the 3-bet. I dont think, this call is going to be long term profitably, when he already put a third of his stack in, and you also have someone left to act behind you.

The alternative line is to go all in to push BTN out of the pot. He have a capped range and is very unlikely to be able to call, and it create a much easier situation against SB. The issue is, when you just call a big 3-bet against a cap stacker, you are going to miss 2 out of 3 times, and then what when he jam the flop? You kind of need to realise all your equity to justify getting involved, and the best way to assure that is to be all in before the flop.

However against this particular player with a very low PRF and a large gap between VPIP and PFR, I prefer to just fold. I think, a squeeze out of position from a player like this is weighted very much towards a strong hand, which in fact he did have. If he is looking down at a nice bluffing hand like A5s, he is very likely to just call and see a flop.
 
teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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The first hand with QQ is absolutely perfect. The result clearly illustrate the value in checking out of position with a middling pair like this. You not only induce him to bluff, but even to sometimes value own himself on the turn.

The second hand with AQo I would just fold to the 3-bet. I dont think, this call is going to be long term profitably, when he already put a third of his stack in, and you also have someone left to act behind you.

The alternative line is to go all in to push BTN out of the pot. He have a capped range and is very unlikely to be able to call, and it create a much easier situation against SB. The issue is, when you just call a big 3-bet against a cap stacker, you are going to miss 2 out of 3 times, and then what when he jam the flop? You kind of need to realise all your equity to justify getting involved, and the best way to assure that is to be all in before the flop.

However against this particular player with a very low PRF and a large gap between VPIP and PFR, I prefer to just fold. I think, a squeeze out of position from a player like this is weighted very much towards a strong hand, which in fact he did have. If he is looking down at a nice bluffing hand like A5s, he is very likely to just call and see a flop.

Thanks for the feedback as always.

For hand 1, would we ever want to bet on that river? If he bets half pot +, are we calling?

Hand 2, you are right. If it were just us and villain in the pot, given 2:1, I would call.
 
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fundiver199

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There is no point in donk betting the river with a middling strength hand like this. He is never folding anything better, and he is rarely calling with worse. The river is a check-fold, and we are very happy to get to a cheap showdown and be good. 3
 
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Unkinhead

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There is no point in donk betting the river with a middling strength hand like this. He is never folding anything better, and he is rarely calling with worse. The river is a check-fold, and we are very happy to get to a cheap showdown and be good. 3


I agree with everything you've said but I have to question a check-fold there. QQ is certainly strong enough in this spot to check-call. Also consider he blocks Q10 here, so is mostly losing to only a king. Folding to a half-pot bet there seems pretty nitty to me, as two standard bets shouldn't be enough to get you off a hand that strong, especially following the in position check on the flop, as you risk being very exploitable.

2.47 / (2.47 + 1.24) = 66.5%

You're getting pod odds to call with QQ's here pretty easily. A bluff here would only need to work 33% of the time to profit. Folding QQ in this spot can be exploited by just always bluffing.
 
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gustav197poker

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In the first hand you face a villain who has 40% of your stack.
In this case, you have the opportunity to get easier value, since you can take advantage of putting more pressure on the villain.
In that flop with overcard, a 50% cbet is great for attracting the middle combos: TT; 99; 88 and to the connectors: J-T; 9-T.
On the turn you block an important lantern (Q-T) and you face a pot bet.
Given the characteristics of the villain (VPIP-60%) the range can now include double pairs. But anyway, there are combinations of value, which could act as semi bluffs that seek to get you out of the way (we have A-J; A-T; A-9; A-8)
I think that on turn the check-call is a balanced movement, which balances our range, but on the river, there is a white street that does not change the situation at all.
Given that so far the villain put 30% of his stack, this street on the river allows us to strengthen our range and withdraw hands that were only defending themselves.
In this spot a push is a profitable move, since the villain can give up many hands, due to the texture of this board.
The villain will sometimes pay and catch you, but it will be very difficult to specify your location, this makes this movement profitable in the long term.

The second hand has similar characteristics to the first (villain with stack equivalent to 40% of your stack) but in this case, the villain plays tighter.
In preflop I overflow you too much, almost 5 times your bet. It is very likely that you do not have problems putting your entire battery in pf, since it put 30% of your stack.
In this case we are facing a premium range: A-A;
K-K; Q-Q; A-K, we could also bet on middle pockets, so we have to think well if it really suits us to continue in this place.
Retiring in preflop is not a mistake if you think of premium hands.
I think taht make call is an acceptable move, since we are in position and can afford to see the flop.
Once seen the flop and after the bet of the villain (70% of the well) we probably do not have many options.
Your queen has a strength as a kicker of 77%
The draws are likely to charge you, you are not bloking the color lines, so that's good for you, since its range includes many combos that have no value formed.
At this point, if you have decided to get here, it is time to push and hope that the villain does not have a J.
Sometimes the villain will catch you, but the price-benefit ratio in these cases is 1: 1, so you should take a risk if you decided to continue.
Greetings.
 
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Lehrstunde1

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First Hand:

- check on the flop is fine
- bet the turn 0.50 - 0.75 -> get value from draws and 2nd, 3rd pairds, etc.
- bet the river fro 1/3-1/2 pot -> value/block bet

this is an exploit, since people rarely bluff/raise the turn witha draw and rarely bluff/raise the river and its a very good one

2nd hand is standard.
 
Gohaku94

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First hand perfectly played. Second hand just shove preflop for 40bbs.
 
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fundiver199

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I agree with everything you've said but I have to question a check-fold there. QQ is certainly strong enough in this spot to check-call. Also consider he blocks Q10 here, so is mostly losing to only a king. Folding to a half-pot bet there seems pretty nitty to me, as two standard bets shouldn't be enough to get you off a hand that strong, especially following the in position check on the flop, as you risk being very exploitable.

2.47 / (2.47 + 1.24) = 66.5%

You're getting pod odds to call with QQ's here pretty easily. A bluff here would only need to work 33% of the time to profit. Folding QQ in this spot can be exploited by just always bluffing.


I agree, its pretty close, so you could also look at opponent tendencies and let that be the deciding factor. Some players love to bluff whenever checked to, others are more passive. Our range is pretty weak, when we check twice. Maybe we can have some KX with bad kicker, but other than that QQ is the best, we can have. Villain can also have some two pair like J9 or J8, that play this way.
 
teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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I agree with everything you've said but I have to question a check-fold there. QQ is certainly strong enough in this spot to check-call. Also consider he blocks Q10 here, so is mostly losing to only a king. Folding to a half-pot bet there seems pretty nitty to me, as two standard bets shouldn't be enough to get you off a hand that strong, especially following the in position check on the flop, as you risk being very exploitable.

2.47 / (2.47 + 1.24) = 66.5%

You're getting pod odds to call with QQ's here pretty easily. A bluff here would only need to work 33% of the time to profit. Folding QQ in this spot can be exploited by just always bluffing.

Shouldn't it be

1.24 / (2.47 + 1.24) = 25% ...?

If not, could you explain this formula? :eek:
 
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Unkinhead

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Shouldn't it be

1.24 / (2.47 + 1.24) = 25% ...?

If not, could you explain this formula? :eek:


It's just the Minimum Defense Frequency calculation! Which just tells you how often you need to bluff/call in that spot to be profitable and not exploitable respectively. Or made much easier, just standardize it to a $1 pot and your opponents betting .50

How often does he need to get his bluff through to be profitable? He's risking 50 cents to win $1. So: if he loses twice then wins he breaks even. So he only needs to win or 'get his bluff through' 1/3rd or 33.3(+.00001) percent of the time to be profitable.

It's pot / (pot + bet)

I wouldn't worry too much about this at the moment there if you're just learning, as it's a more advanced concept and not always applicable. The calculation does NOT consider his value hands in this spot and only considers he is bluffing.

Your calculation is pot odds to justify a call.
 
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kkonicke

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I'm a bit late to the party. I agree with most that the first hand was played standard. I was expecting villain to have JT. I'll add I'm probably calling a river bet. There's a ton of draws on the turn that all missed, and you block his only realistic straight hand which is QT. A river bet is often going to be a bluff, while Jx and 9x are probably checking down. Sure, sometimes he'll have KT, KJ, or J9, but more often a river bet will be a bluff than a valuebet.

2nd hand, at these stakes, a 3bet is almost always TT+ or AQ+. Once in a great while a more aggressive player will mix in some 87 suited stuff, also button raises get 3bet by the blinds much wider, but for the most part, expect villain to have a hand in that range. Considering his stats, I tend to lean towards fold as well but it's close. Out of position, I'm folding for sure. I'm not super concerned about Button as he's almost never calling. After the flop bet, you can firmly rule out AA and JJ. He would check those 2 hands considering his remaining stack, and play the rest of his range exactly the way he did. As played, I'm for sure getting it in. I was expecting villain to have AK or KK before cards were revealed.
 
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