$10 NLHE 6-max: $10 NLHE 6-max: TP+FD facing flop raise

Full Tilt - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $11.55 (17/13/42 over ~80 hands)
BB: $32.68
UTG: $10.00
MP: $10.84
CO: $14.16 (25/10/24 over ~80 hands)
Hero (BTN): $12.50

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 9♦ A♦

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, SB raises to $1.10, fold, CO calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($3.40, 3 players) A♥ Q♦ 2♦
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $2.00, fold, CO raises to $4.70, Hero calls $2.70

Turn: ($12.80, 2 players) 2♠
CO bets $8.36 and is all-in, Hero ??? (I called, but is that right?)

Should I have played preflop differently? As played, should I have jammed the flop?

(First time posting a HA; hope I didn't butcher it)

SYWTWAF said:

Full Tilt - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $11.55 (17/13/42 over ~80 hands)
BB: $32.68
UTG: $10.00
MP: $10.84
CO: $14.16 (25/10/24 over ~80 hands)
Hero (BTN): $12.50

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 9♦ A♦

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, SB raises to $1.10, fold, CO calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($3.40, 3 players) A♥ Q♦ 2♦
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $2.00, fold, CO raises to $4.70, Hero calls $2.70

Turn: ($12.80, 2 players) 2♠
CO bets $8.36 and is all-in, Hero ??? (I called, but is that right?)

Should I have played preflop differently? As played, should I have jammed the flop?

(First time posting a HA; hope I didn't butcher it)

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I dont mind the call pre, although a 3b might be better, but as soon as it does get 3bet fold everytime imo, as played you have to jam the flop, what other flop are you hoping for when you call pre with Axs?

One good thing about the hand is that you posted it well though

Flatting Axs isnt going to be profitable long term, OTB i either overcall, or (preferably) 3bet a TAG CO opener....and i'm hoping for a fold pre tbh

3bet>overcall>fold pre

EDIT: Fold turn too

I dont mind any of the play pre flop. But on the flop its a definate check behind. You dont want to be c/r when you have the nut flush draw and tpmk. Its far easier to take the free card and keep them both in the pot.
You just dont have as much fold equity as you think to jam to make hitting your flush profitable here.

As for the turn, im folding to this kind of aggression.

KardKlub said:

I dont mind any of the play pre flop. But on the flop its a definate check behind. You dont want to be c/r when you have the nut flush draw and tpmk. Its far easier to take the free card and keep them both in the pot.
You just dont have as much fold equity as you think to jam to make hitting your flush profitable here.

As for the turn, im folding to this kind of aggression.

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You say you dont mind preflop here, but if you want to check behind and not get it in on a this flop then what flop are you hoping for when you call behind with A9s?

Pre is gross i don't care what you guys say

Co v b is just like sb v bb if you get heads up. Yes 3 betting is great too but calling ip against him is cool too if your post flop play is better than most.

When the sb squeezes and co calls playing A9s multiway with good odds to call and position why not see a flop.

You flop a flush draw with tp kicker and it checks through, why not take the free card? Why do we need to bet here and get chased off a hand this good. Yes this is a great spot for us but why do we have to get aggressive just because we have the nut flush draw and everyone says jam. We just get called by way better here far to often.

Get it in on the flop, i pretty much call the turn too but I'm a station?

If co vs b is like bvb then i should be calling with almost ATC

bgomez89 said:

If co vs b is like bvb then i should be calling with almost ATC

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Or better still 3 bet the crap out of him

Depends but no for ne most of the time

bgomez89 said:

Depends but no for ne most of the time

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Oh yeah, def play how your comfortable. But to get action you need to create it somewhere and where better than on the button.

Glad to see you still playing 25 nl, I took a massive down swing so I've dropped to 10nl until I can get back on my feet.

How's the poker group going?

Its pretty much just forsakenone and i which is going alright. I'm also getting coached and that's going well too

Cool, well the only way is up!

Thanks for all the critical feedback! This is very helpful and enlightening, and I'll definitely be posting more HAs from now on.

orangepeeleo said:

I dont mind the call pre, although a 3b might be better, but as soon as it does get 3bet fold everytime imo

Click to expand...

I see now that not 3-betting pre-flop was most likely a mistake. Should I have folded to the SB's 3bet and the CO's call, though? At that point, I thought it would be okay to call given the pot odds and my being in position (as KardKlub mentioned).

IF CO had folded pre-flop to SB's 3bet, should I also have folded to his 3bet?

To those who advocate getting it in on the flop, i.e. jamming after the CO check-raised me (which I considered doing), isn't it likely that the CO had me crushed (with a set or a better Ax), given that he could have bet out after the SB had checked, but instead made a small check raise? I figured I had the odds to call his C-R and try to hit my flush on the turn, but once I bricked the turn, I definitely should have folded to his turn bet. If I was going to call any turn anyway, I should have just jammed the flop myself.

Checking behind the flop didn't occur to me as a viable move, but I now see the reasoning behind it.

orangepeeleo said:

One good thing about the hand is that you posted it well though

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Haha, that says a lot about how good the hand is, eh?

To be honest I'm not a fan of the way this hand is played at all. Now to be fair I'm not 6Max player so maybe you should take what I say with a grain of salt but here is my reasoning...

Preflop - maybe calling a bet with A9 suited is okay on the button however once its re-raised you really have to think you are beat and I would be folding this every single time.

Flop - you flopped top pair with a medium kicker and a flush draw. Pretty good for your hand but there is a real chance you are still behind. At the moment it is only a medium strength hand and I don't feel like you need to be betting in a situation like this. The risk of being check raised by one of the others is too great IMO and it puts you in a tough situation. Check the pot and keep it small.

Turn - you got raised all-in...worst case nightmare really. Chances are you are beat at this point.Lets look at this rationally. What could the CO have? Could he have a hand worse than you. Could he be bluffing with complete air on with a weaker ace. I doubt it is complete air as he would be unlikely to call a re-raiser with a blind steal attempt....Weaker ace....possible.....but does a weak ace ever check-raise the turn here? Doubtful. Could he be semi bluffing? Other than your diamond draw there are only gutshots out there. Once again I would consider this doubtful. Is ever going to make this play with KK's? Once again, doubt it. So more likely he has the goods now and believes that you will call.

So it is a reasonable assumption we are going to have to improve here to win. What he has will determine how many outs we have to make our hand. There are basically 3 types of hands here.

Best Case Scenario : AK or AJ. Along with our flush outs we have the 9 of clubs and spades as outs as well giving us a total of 11 outs. Another 2 or A would give us a split pot. So 13 cards in all to avoid complete disaster. This is probably the most likely scenario given that he flatted the raise preflop rather than 4betting.

Not so good Scenario : AQ. Hitting our 9's are no longer good. We must rely on our nine flush outs to win this pot. A 2 will give us a split pot but an ace is no longer good so 10 outs to avoid complete disaster. Once again AQ falls in the realms of possibility of his preflop range.

Oh dear God Scenario : AA or QQ. To both these hands we are basically drawing dead (drawing to an Ace with the QQ). They have a full-house and our flush is no longer good. I doubt he has either of these hands as the typical 10NL player would re-raise all in pre-flop with this kind of hand but its certainly more possible than a complete bluff IMO.

So lets assume the best case scenario. We have 11 outs to make the best hand. Using the 4 / 2 rule, since we are calling an all in bet we times our outs by 2 to get the percentage of times we will hit. 11x2 so we have 22% to win. Now his all in bet puts us all-in for about half the pot. In this best case scenario is this a good call? No it is not. With a half bet call on the turn, we need to be at approximately 25% to win any money on this in the long term. Making this call will lose money even in the best case scenario that you have 11 outs, let alone in cases where you are actually drawing dead.

Fold it and don't look back

22% is absurd.

I give him all combos of AK (which I think is sorta unlikely), AQ-AJ, 22 and QQ, no worse made hands and only 1 combo of a draw (KdJd) and we have 35%. I refuse to include AA. This totally discounts random spazzes with AT- or other flush draws.

http://www.propokertools.com/simula...he&h1=Ad9d&h2=QQ,+2h2c,+AJ-AK,+KdJd&s=classic

@takethepain:
This is brilliant and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to break down your whole thought process in such great detail for me.

baudib1 said:

22% is absurd.

I give him all combos of AK (which I think is sorta unlikely), AQ-AJ, 22 and QQ, no worse made hands and only 1 combo of a draw (KdJd) and we have 35%. I refuse to include AA. This totally discounts random spazzes with AT- or other flush draws.

http://www.propokertools.com/simula...he&h1=Ad9d&h2=QQ,+2h2c,+AJ-AK,+KdJd&s=classic

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Mmm, my bad, AJ actually ties the pot. Heh, I need more sleep. I would put him on KdJd about as much as you would put him on AA. I could play AA this way, although unlikely with a flush draw out there. His play doesn't seem consistent with a flush draw in my mind. Check raises, then pushes? I would put him on at least an ace, possibly trips. Its hard to know without knowing the villain personally.

And no worries, SYWTWAF. I'm just learning as well, so please dont take my words as gospel But yeah, it amazes me how such a simple game can cause such indepth thinking!

wat

check-raising SD+FD is standard and that's precisely 1 combo.

yeah I just fold to the 3 bet preflop. the way you played it, just jam the flop.

baudib1 said:

wat

check-raising SD+FD is standard and that's precisely 1 combo.

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With a 5NL player with a 24% agression stat? I'm not saying its impossible, but I would consider it unlikely...I believe he is doing this with hands that beat us and he shoves because he really does not want to check check to the river and be confronted with a diamond. If this is the case we need to improve on the river to win and we are not getting the right price for that. If we consider he could be doing this with hands that we currently tie or beat, then obviously calling is the right play.

Its a moot point though, should had been folded pre-flop

I think you are beaten here.
He calls preflop squeeze then reraised your bet.
He have strong hand or he is maniac.
Is he aggressive player?