1/3NL Live: 77 post-flop all-in on BB with one TAG villian. Bad move?

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Azuredrake

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Forgive me if I break forum decorum as I am brand new to this site. I was playing at my local casino on a 1/3 NL table. I was in the BB and dealt 7c7h on a table that was a mix of tight aggressive and tight passive players. All players limped in and I chose to raise 3.3x BB ($10). This forced everyone except button to fold. Button decides to follow and flop comes 4c 9s 10d. I put villain on overcards and was sure flop missed him. I shoved all in for $45, just a little over pot and about 1/3 of villian's stack. Villain ponders, then calls with Kh Qc. My instincts were right, but he catches a K on river.
I get immediate criticism from other players. I felt I did the right thing but would like other opinions. Bear in mind I am still somewhat new to the game.
 
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fletchdad

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A bit more info would be helpful, like how many players at the table to begin with.

You are quite short. You had less than 20 BB to start, if I am understanding this correctly. And your raise is questionable, if all players limped. BUT... that depends on how many players there are. i.e. 9 players limping, your raise is laughable. If there were 4 players, you still are giving good odds to a lot of hands to call.

With such a short stack, post you played it fine. (Players criticizing your play at a table.. Really, that NEVER happens....lol) BUT you also need to elaborate a bit on how BTN was playing, how he though you were playing etc.....

But why are you so short? And what were you trying to achieve with your raise? Did you want callers, people shoving over? If everyone limps, and you raise so small, you wont be getting all folds much, and the more calls (it would really help to know how many people at the table) you get with 77 in the blinds, the less happy you (or me at least ) are gonna be.....


BTW, welcome to CC. If you look here you can post hands and get more responses to your questions.
 
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Azuredrake

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It was a full table of 9 players. I'll admit that my raise was a little low, but for the table, everyone was folding to any raise as they were playing super tight. It achieved my goal of having only 1 caller (probably still would have shoved with 2 callers on the flop that came) but the criticism really came from going all in post flop with pocket pair. I was short at the table most likely because I'm not very skilled yet. Just wondering if the all in move was criticism worthy. Opponent was super tight all night.
 
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Tight table that berates new players when they lose? Find a new Card Room.
 
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BPEPFPDP

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Well, full ring always have slow dynamics, so your 77 looks weak vs all limpers lol, prefer cold call with them, and if miss flop - fold.
 
fletchdad

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Tight table that berates new players when they lose? Find a new Card Room.



I disagree. Players that do this are probably prone to tilt, and easily. As well as probably not being all that good themselves.... Most players I see who do this overestimate their own play. Good table to be at.

I understand starting off short if you are not confident. But you lose a lot of playing power when you are short. So it is a mixed thing, you can play without fear of big loss, but have no "bargaining" power.
 
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I disagree. Players that do this are probably prone to tilt, and easily. As well as probably not being all that good themselves.... Most players I see who do this overestimate their own play. Good table to be at.

I understand starting off short if you are not confident. But you lose a lot of playing power when you are short. So it is a mixed thing, you can play without fear of big loss, but have no "bargaining" power.

Your post would be correct if OP had an edge at the table but he apparently doesn't so why should he play with better players that are berating him even when he loses? I do agree it is a good table for experienced player since these player types are basically rec fish.
 
Trabendo_daze

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Screw these people man. Poker is meant to be fun, you don't need that garbage.

Secondly, you got your money in good. What is there to berate?

Advice: First buy-in for at least $200 at a 1/3 game. If you don't you're limiting your game.

Second, I'd probably not raise preflop with so many limpers out of position with 77. Good chances are that more than a couple people will call and then you're basically set-mining for a higher price.

If you really are going to do this, I'd raise probably to like $25 then shove all flops with your shortstack. You're going to need folds with 77 and I can't imagine anything less than $25 will give you enough. You'd be left with not very much afterwards and be forced to shove. Hell, you could even shove pre (again, I don't know how much you had).

The guy called when he was behind so ultimately good play. That's
 
fletchdad

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Your post would be correct if OP had an edge at the table but he apparently doesn't so why should he play with better players that are berating him even when he loses? I do agree it is a good table for experienced player since these player types are basically rec fish.


Yes, I get what you are saying.

But he has to start at some table.... Smiling sharks congratulating him on his good play wont send him to a forum to ask questions though. Which is probably a good thing for OP.

But, yea, you did make a good point.
 
Aces2w1n

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I remember my first table... It was after I had learnt a few things online and built the courage.

I knew somewhat what I was doing at the time, but lacked confidence.

Guys were saying after the 2nd hr I preferred when you were unsure of your surroundings lol... I still owned the table though I didn't know half the stuff I knew. But that's just me I just a$$ things.

first pub tourney I hit 2nd last table out of 40 players... and I peeved off almost everyone cuz I was hitting two pair all night such as 62 and 74 all kind of trash hahaha.

So yeah we all start somewhere guys.
 
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Azuredrake

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"Second, I'd probably not raise preflop with so many limpers out of position with 77. "

Probably the best advice I see. I'm terrible about playing position and sometimes hearing the most obvious thing said by someone else can be very effective. Plenty of great advice in these comments and I appreciate them all. I'm definitely not one to shy away from criticism, just trying to get a better understanding of the game. Thanks everyone.
 
fletchdad

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"Second, I'd probably not raise preflop with so many limpers out of position with 77. "

Probably the best advice I see. I'm terrible about playing position and sometimes hearing the most obvious thing said by someone else can be very effective. Plenty of great advice in these comments and I appreciate them all. I'm definitely not one to shy away from criticism, just trying to get a better understanding of the game. Thanks everyone.



You have a good attitude. That is a very good. And IMO, the entire comment from Metsdude is good.

While I have heard people say play short while you learn, I dont really agree. But you have to play within your own comfort zone. Just remember that you can lose more with a proper buy in, but you have more leverage to actually play poker with, which is how you learn best. Just make sure folding is going to be a play you include in your plan of "How do I continue in this hand?" (You do think about that before you call or raise, right?) At least, thats how I see it.

Good luck, man!.
 
IPlay

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Why don't you play micro's online for cheap/quick practice. Also, do you play Hearthstone? Or is Azure Drake from something else too?
 
Trabendo_daze

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I'm pretty sure he's a 2/4 with flying that costs 4 mana, is that right?
 
IPlay

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naw man, a 4/4 with battlecry draw a card, spell damage +1 for 5 mana but lets not nerd it up too much in here haha.

You play often? you should add me
 
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Azuredrake

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I'm pretty sure he's a 2/4 with flying that costs 4 mana, is that right?

Haha...nailed it...although I do play Hearthstone nowadays and MtG not so much.
To other concerns, I'm really not able to play poker online, so I take a quick 45 minute drive to my local casino and play for few hours. I generally sit at 1/2 or 1/3 and try to buy in for around 1.5x the table min. It makes sense that this is limiting me, so I guess I should up it to table max and just float around on the 1/2 for a while. I've had some successful nights, but largely over the course of a few months, I'm down more than I've won.
I purchased a couple of books to read. Harrington on Cash Games and Caro's Most Profitable Hold'em Advice. ..thoughts/recommendations?
 
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Read crushing the microstakes by Black Rain to gain some really solid fundamentals that are needed to beat cash games. This book will really only help you beat the lowest of stakes though but that seems to be what you need.

Wait, are you guys talking about a card called "Azure Drake" in MTG? I was talking about Hearthstone the card game by Blizzard
 
Trabendo_daze

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Reading books is fine man, watching Jason Somerville's runitup series is better in my opinion. The videos are on YouTube and he's a hilarious character who should give you a good idea of ranges and thought processes. Depends how you process information, but I think he was a huge game changer.

Ha I used to play MTG a bit with my friends in college, but not much anymore. Never got in to hearthstone. Gonna be honest I knew that drake really sounded like an MtG card so I googled Azure Drake and voila.

Buying in for 150 at a 200 dollar max table should be fine, but also just think if you feel comfortable playing those limits. You never want to be handcuffed because the money is too much for you to gamble a tad. I've played like that before and it's not only a losing play but also just not that fun
 
fletchdad

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Read crushing the microstakes by Black Rain

Yes, good read!

He has a second book that is also well worth reading.... Cant remember the title, but it is the follow up to his first. I have read both and can strongly recommend them. (Even if I cant remember the title, I remember the info in the book.....;) )
 
TheBigFinn

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Doing a little math there were 8 $3 limpers ahead of you making a $24 pot into which you bet $10. I am amazed you only got one caller. If UTG had called getting 3 to 1 like he probably should have, there would have been a flood of calls behind as each caller got better and better odds. the pot after the call is $44 less rake and you basically bet pot.

Villain calls getting 2 to 1. As the cards lay he is a 60/40 dog so the call is a good one. Post flop you are getting it in if villain raises, so the post flop shove.

The problem is your stack size. You don't have enough to play. If you raise more and get called Villain has even better odds to call. A push might be good enough to clean up the limps but that feels bad. If you are ahead it is not by much and you could be way behind to 88, 99, TT or even JJ. I think you need to check pre and on the flop, folding to a big raise if you don't flop the set.
 
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