$1/3 Live: Did I play my set right?

spairone · Apr 3, 2017

Last night playing at the Wynn in my usual 1/3 game. On the button I get dealt 6h6d. UTG opens up with a raise of $15 pre flop. 2 callers + me. 4 ways to a flop. Flop comes 9d8d5h. UTG leads out with a bet of $30. MP folds I call SB folds. Turn card is the 6 of spades. Awesome!I turned a set + a gut shot straight draw. Before we started the hand I had about $360 behind. The guy who I'm heads up with has a little but over $400. He bets $50 on the turn. I think for about 10 seconds and decide to raise. I bump it up to $150.00. He flats.
River is the Ace of Diamonds completing the flush draw. He checks,then I shove all in. At this point I'm putting him on JJ TT QQ JT,9T. I know he can't have pocket 9's because he probably would have bet bigger to get me off the flush draw. I beat pocket 5's and 8's are definitely out of his range.Player thinks for about 10 seconds and then makes the call. I flip over my hand assuming I'm going to take this pot down and to my disgust he turns over pocket 7's!(black cards) I really did not put that hand in his range. He got lucky with his 4 outer on the turn,technically a 2 outer based on my holdings.

I didn't re-buy I left the table. I analyzed the hand and my game play a few times today and I think my biggest mistake was raising on the turn. Had I just flatted, I could have bluffed the river making him think I have the flush,jamming my stack.

What other ways would you guys play this hand? What did I do right? What did I do wrong?

LFC_yllnwa · Apr 4, 2017

On the flop you were behind it! Why the turn to move his bet? when the Board is straight-draw! cash game very few players risking their money is going to play a bluff! all the silt on the river is stupid! You beat 3 pair + straight-draw..

Had the turn just call! and look at his bet on the river. You could just not lose everything if you don't believe in street but you play very stupid..

smuryof · Apr 4, 2017

You didn't have a gut shot straight draw, the whole board had a gut shot straight draw. Anyone with a Ten would have taken it, at that point.

As for sets - if my set doesn't hit on the flop, I will drop out when facing overcards on the board, especially a wet board.

In your case, hitting your set of 6's post flop puts a pretty high straight possibility out there. Not to mention the flush.

I think sets are very powerful, especially on the flop. But they lose strength quickly on a wet board, or if you are paying to see them on subsequent streets. From the flop, at that point I can't imagine *any* card that would make you feel safe on the turn, not even if it were a 7 instead of a 6. Too much out there and you're at the bottom end.

leshausa03 · Apr 4, 2017

All played correctly. Just a bit unlucky )

matiusaa · Apr 4, 2017

Against the range you were putting him you could have never bluffed him you would have value bet on the river

Sil3ntness · Apr 4, 2017

Against a competent player don't think they would call so lightly when there's a river flush and 4 to a straight. Would only bet on the river versus the most STICKIEST bad player that can't fold one pair.

deform fedot · Apr 4, 2017

Yes, he did everything right, just was not lucky ... the only thing that could be needed was a sweat-check, just in case, check the bighead, suddenly he shut down the flash ... but so the rules ... people just could not throw it away, Too much money in the bank was ... fold equity did not work ...
I would not have set 77 either

PKRNRS · Apr 4, 2017

spairone said:
Last night playing at the Wynn in my usual 1/3 game. On the button I get dealt 6h6d. UTG opens up with a raise of $15 pre flop. 2 callers + me. 4 ways to a flop. Flop comes 9d8d5h. UTG leads out with a bet of $30. MP folds I call SB folds. Turn card is the 6 of spades. Awesome!I turned a set + a gut shot straight draw. Before we started the hand I had about $360 behind. The guy who I'm heads up with has a little but over $400. He bets $50 on the turn. I think for about 10 seconds and decide to raise. I bump it up to $150.00. He flats.
River is the Ace of Diamonds completing the flush draw. He checks,then I shove all in. At this point I'm putting him on JJ TT QQ JT,9T. I know he can't have pocket 9's because he probably would have bet bigger to get me off the flush draw. I beat pocket 5's and 8's are definitely out of his range.Player thinks for about 10 seconds and then makes the call. I flip over my hand assuming I'm going to take this pot down and to my disgust he turns over pocket 7's!(black cards) I really did not put that hand in his range. He got lucky with his 4 outer on the turn,technically a 2 outer based on my holdings.
QUOTE]

The biggest thing that went wrong is you got what you asked for. This is classic "made a hand but it made the villain's better". So you got an opponent with UTG raise. It should suggest a strong hand such as AA-QQ or AK, AQ and maybe AJ. Two callers and you are on the button. One could argue that this is a re-rise opportunity. Already ~$45 in the pot but I personally would just call here. You got enough players in the pot to set-mine. The flop comes down and its not horrible but all you hit was the low end of a gut-shot draw. The villain makes a good c-bet of about 1/2 pot size. Now AA-99 are in this range as well as any Ahxh and 88, 55, JT, 98, 76 as well. There are so many hands that beat yours at this point that alarms should be going off in your head. The turn brings great news that you got what you wanted! The pot is ~$120 and your opponent bets $50 again about 1/2 the pot. This bet may be viewed as a little light. Of course this type of bet says "stay in the pot with me". Now you bumping it to $150 and getting flatted should send more red flags up. The river is a great scare card. Its an ace and a diamond. Actually getting this card reduces the likelihood of a flush. Most players will want the nut flush and this card popping up is a single that he don't have it. Of course other hands fall off the and other flushes seem less likely since you have the 6h. Also he checks on the river after leading for three streets. This seems a little fishy in itself. Your shove is fine because you haven't much behind so you're more or less pot committed at this point because any pot size bet is what you got left. In a cash game I'm going to call this. If I'm wrong then I just re-buy. You but his range with JT and 9T but didn't put small pockets in there yet you played a small pair. QT and KQ might have been there as well especially if they were hearts. The thing one has to remember is that this is $1/$3 and you're going to get a variety of players. Clueless tourist to experienced professionals. Any two cards can show up. You didn't tell how this opponent was playing or how long you have been at the table. Overall you didn't play it bad but you shouldn't have raised. I personally would have flat the $50 and then happy to check the river since soooo many hands beat mine.

JonSofen · Apr 4, 2017

spairone said:
Last night playing at the Wynn in my usual 1/3 game. On the button I get dealt 6h6d. UTG opens up with a raise of $15 pre flop. 2 callers + me. 4 ways to a flop. Flop comes 9d8d5h. UTG leads out with a bet of $30. MP folds I call SB folds. Turn card is the 6 of spades. Awesome!I turned a set + a gut shot straight draw. Before we started the hand I had about $360 behind. The guy who I'm heads up with has a little but over $400. He bets $50 on the turn. I think for about 10 seconds and decide to raise. I bump it up to $150.00. He flats.
River is the Ace of Diamonds completing the flush draw. He checks,then I shove all in. At this point I'm putting him on JJ TT QQ JT,9T. I know he can't have pocket 9's because he probably would have bet bigger to get me off the flush draw. I beat pocket 5's and 8's are definitely out of his range.Player thinks for about 10 seconds and then makes the call. I flip over my hand assuming I'm going to take this pot down and to my disgust he turns over pocket 7's!(black cards) I really did not put that hand in his range. He got lucky with his 4 outer on the turn,technically a 2 outer based on my holdings.

I didn't re-buy I left the table. I analyzed the hand and my game play a few times today and I think my biggest mistake was raising on the turn. Had I just flatted, I could have bluffed the river making him think I have the flush,jamming my stack.

What other ways would you guys play this hand? What did I do right? What did I do wrong?

Here's my opinion.

You should have folded the flop and saved your bet on the river if you decided to call the flop.

Think of it this way...

With a flop like that, what card could come on the turn that would be good for you? Only a 7 or maybe a 6 given that you have 2 blockers to the straight if a 7 hits.

But you're in horrible shape against most of his range. Like you said, you put him on an over pair. So you're drawing to, at best, a 6-outer.

I would have folded for sure in this spot. Even if your hand was best, your hand is vulnerable. He could have been on a flush draw. The absolute best case scenario is he had AK (2 overs).

Would UTG bet the flop into 4 players with nothing but ace-high? Doubtful.

On the river...

You put him on an over pair. The river was an ace, completing a flush. He really can't call you with anything that doesn't beat you (a straight, a flush or maybe a higher set). Granted, I don't know this player, but it would be difficult to call off a bet on the river with KK or QQ, given there's an ace, 4 to a straight, and possible flush. I would have checked here knowing he can only call with a hand that beats me.

spairone · Apr 4, 2017

PKRNRS said:
spairone said:

Last night playing at the Wynn in my usual 1/3 game. On the button I get dealt 6h6d. UTG opens up with a raise of $15 pre flop. 2 callers + me. 4 ways to a flop. Flop comes 9d8d5h. UTG leads out with a bet of $30. MP folds I call SB folds. Turn card is the 6 of spades. Awesome!I turned a set + a gut shot straight draw. Before we started the hand I had about $360 behind. The guy who I'm heads up with has a little but over $400. He bets $50 on the turn. I think for about 10 seconds and decide to raise. I bump it up to $150.00. He flats.
River is the Ace of Diamonds completing the flush draw. He checks,then I shove all in. At this point I'm putting him on JJ TT QQ JT,9T. I know he can't have pocket 9's because he probably would have bet bigger to get me off the flush draw. I beat pocket 5's and 8's are definitely out of his range.Player thinks for about 10 seconds and then makes the call. I flip over my hand assuming I'm going to take this pot down and to my disgust he turns over pocket 7's!(black cards) I really did not put that hand in his range. He got lucky with his 4 outer on the turn,technically a 2 outer based on my holdings.
QUOTE]

The biggest thing that went wrong is you got what you asked for. This is classic "made a hand but it made the villain's better". So you got an opponent with UTG raise. It should suggest a strong hand such as AA-QQ or AK, AQ and maybe AJ. Two callers and you are on the button. One could argue that this is a re-rise opportunity. Already ~$45 in the pot but I personally would just call here. You got enough players in the pot to set-mine. The flop comes down and its not horrible but all you hit was the low end of a gut-shot draw. The villain makes a good c-bet of about 1/2 pot size. Now AA-99 are in this range as well as any Ahxh and 88, 55, JT, 98, 76 as well. There are so many hands that beat yours at this point that alarms should be going off in your head. The turn brings great news that you got what you wanted! The pot is ~$120 and your opponent bets $50 again about 1/2 the pot. This bet may be viewed as a little light. Of course this type of bet says "stay in the pot with me". Now you bumping it to $150 and getting flatted should send more red flags up. The river is a great scare card. Its an ace and a diamond. Actually getting this card reduces the likelihood of a flush. Most players will want the nut flush and this card popping up is a single that he don't have it. Of course other hands fall off the and other flushes seem less likely since you have the 6h. Also he checks on the river after leading for three streets. This seems a little fishy in itself. Your shove is fine because you haven't much behind so you're more or less pot committed at this point because any pot size bet is what you got left. In a cash game I'm going to call this. If I'm wrong then I just re-buy. You but his range with JT and 9T but didn't put small pockets in there yet you played a small pair. QT and KQ might have been there as well especially if they were hearts. The thing one has to remember is that this is $1/$3 and you're going to get a variety of players. Clueless tourist to experienced professionals. Any two cards can show up. You didn't tell how this opponent was playing or how long you have been at the table. Overall you didn't play it bad but you shouldn't have raised. I personally would have flat the $50 and then happy to check the river since soooo many hands beat mine.

Click to expand...

Great analysis I really appreciate Your response and the others that replied. I came from a broken table. and had literally only been at the new table for about 10 mins until I busted out. I previously had one heads up with the player where he beat me with a higher flush. He was an older guy in his 70s not very aggressive at all. He only raised me $50 on the river with the King high flush and I flatted because I was holding the Queen.

He definitely changed up his play with his pocket 7's. When he bet $30 on the flop I assume he was just trying to buy it and see where everyone was at. He had one over card that could beat him and a flush draw. His only equity was hitting his straight or another 7. Like I said before, he had black cards.I had the gutter and the backdoor flush draw so it was worth paying the $30 to see the turn. When I hit my set,I saw the straight out there but in my mind there was no way he was holding 7s. It was an aggressive move to raise on the turn. He did snap call but at this point I'm thinking he must have Queens or Jacks. Then when the ace hit the river and he checked I just naturally assumed he had either one of those hands and the ace or third diamond beat his hand. That was my reason for jamming.

At the end of the day it's poker.I'm not mad at my mistakes.They'll be many more great hands and bad beats that I can share with you guys!

TheNutz4You · Apr 5, 2017

flush draw and straight draw on the board its to wet to shove, with the way he bet all the way to river and checked back on the river, I would of nit checked and hoped to scoop the pot and not felt myself to a flush/str8

Tricky123bet · Apr 5, 2017

TheNutz4You said:
flush draw and straight draw on the board its to wet to shove, with the way he bet all the way to river and checked back on the river, I would of nit checked and hoped to scoop the pot and not felt myself to a flush/str8

Agree to this. You have to ask yourself what you are getting value from by shoving on the river. Villain must realize by the turn raise you made that you have a pretty strong hand, and won't call you with enough hands that you beat.

Aaron Soto · Apr 6, 2017

Easy fold on the flop. Chasing a gut-shot lol? 1 in 12, if not 1 in 16 (since it's typical a player has one of your outs). Not to mention he can have 9s, 8s, 7s higher pocket pair, flush draw etc. etc. Your beat by everything practically. Fold and wait for better scenario.

Should of just flatted turn and he would of checked the river anyway. Saving you 200-250. Would of went check/check on river.

After you made mistake of raising the turn he thought you made a higher straight obviously. Flush just added insult to his hand. Check the river. Ain't nobody folding a straight to a flush on the river unless deep stacked. On 1-3.

Che · Apr 11, 2017

Aaron Soto said:
Easy fold on the flop. Chasing a gut-shot lol? 1 in 12, if not 1 in 16

There's no gonna be ever only a gutshot of just 4 outs. Never, never and more of never...,
It's gonna be:
4 outs for the belly shot
2 outs for backdoor for either flush or straight draw
3 outs for at least one-over if you got a single T,J,Q,K or Ace

That's a total of 9 outs. It's better then OESD and equal with a flush draw. From all those 9 potential outs 6 (gut and backdoor) will give you the winning hand. The other 3 overs could give you a winning vs. top pair or could have some showdown value :deal:

:joyman:

marakhovskii · Apr 12, 2017

I would have pressed the floor of the stop-preflop and the floor of the pile on the flop and won all

quick · Apr 18, 2017

I fold to that bet on the flop here. Some players will suggest folding 66 to the pre flop raise BUT I think with 3 other players going to flop, if the set does hit on flop you can probably make a lot off worse hands. But what are we really looking to beat with 66 on that flop? He raises the turn and there's a completed straight possibility out there, why not just call his turn bet if you aren't sure if you're 100% ahead. If we just call his turn and the board pairs on river we're good here almost always as we can't fear set over set or boat over boat and have to get it in.

I think your river shove was misguided. You have to ask yourself "why" you thought that was the correct play on an open ended straight board that rivers to a completed nut flush board without a pair on the board. I mean really what's calling that shove there? Yeah maybe some overpairs which you crush but most likely with so many combinations possible on a 4 way flop, you're getting beat. If you were trying to "rep" the nut flush getting there and suspected he had a straight or 2p or a set this move rarely works at 1/2 so doubt it works at 1/3. That's a fancy play syndrome move and should be employed if you KNOW the particular villain will fold to that representation shove on a flushed board. But sounds like you assumed a set was still good on a straight and flushed board which means you've got to really look over these spots and remind yourself to read the board.

Correct play on flop is almost always a fold on this board facing that raise. You took it to turn and likely behind so best thing you can do to minimize lose is flat call his turn raise and hope the board pairs on board giving you a boat. That way you lose a lot less if the boat misses...money saved is money earned.

quick · Apr 18, 2017

Aaron Soto said:
Easy fold on the flop. Chasing a gut-shot lol? 1 in 12, if not 1 in 16 (since it's typical a player has one of your outs). Not to mention he can have 9s, 8s, 7s higher pocket pair, flush draw etc. etc. Your beat by everything practically. Fold and wait for better scenario.

Should of just flatted turn and he would of checked the river anyway. Saving you 200-250. Would of went check/check on river.

After you made mistake of raising the turn he thought you made a higher straight obviously. Flush just added insult to his hand. Check the river. Ain't nobody folding a straight to a flush on the river unless deep stacked. On 1-3.

I definitely agree here with the flatted turn call. Worst case here we check/check river and lose a little but save a lot. Best case here the board pairs on river, we make a juicy value bet, villain shoves, we call rest and win a huge pot.

subsinind · Apr 18, 2017

Check on the river is good.

When you went all in on river, he just couldn't fold it away to a flush because it smells fishy. He probably put you on 2 pair to make the call with a straight. He couldn't put you on 7T - may be he has a read to what you call preflop.

When a guy leads out for 30 on the flop in this board, you already should know that he is chasing or made a str already. Turn was really scary. You could have called. I am not sure whether he would have bet the river because of a flush. You could have checked it too and if he bet and you went all in, it makes sense that you got a flush now.

mastahbates · Apr 21, 2017

smuryof said:
As for sets - if my set doesn't hit on the flop, I will drop out when facing overcards on the board, especially a wet board.

This.

I like to set mine with 22+ and if my set doesn't hit on the flop and there's no way for me to see a free turn card, I am out of the hand.

monkey23 · Apr 21, 2017

preflop your call is good imo...you are priced in to go set mining.

flop...90 in the pot...30 for you to call. What do you have here. A dodgy pair with 2 outs, and a 4-out gutter. BUT...if your 6 comes, then so does a whole host of ranges that beat you. A7 sooted, any TJ ( not unlikely) ,67(unlikely), 78 sooted, 97 sooted, 57 sooted, and of course 77.

if the 7 comes, and you make your straight, then you are good against anything apart from TJ ( quite possible considering the preflop action.

I would have folded my gutter on the flop...but it's easy in hindsight, huh...

but you called, and hit your set on the turn.

now...what does oppo's small turn bet mean? What will you gain by raising the 50$ bet to 150? What do you do if you get re-raised / shoved on?

a/ the small turn bet could be a fishy info bet holding 555 or 888, but a doubtful line imo, as a set holding on the flop would probably have bet bigger to defend against what is a very wet board against 3 other players.
It is a small bet asking for information i think....and when you raise to 150 they get that info. At this point oppo probably put you on a set. Had you held the very possible 7T sooted ( the higher straight), you would have raised more maybe, and oppo would have more info.

b/ by small raising with your set, you are only inducing a call with a flush draw, a better set, or a trap call or a reraise with the made straight.

c/ if you get shoved on you can call or fold with your 10 boat outs, but knowing you are beat at this point.

on the turn, i would probably just call, hoping to fill up on the river...too many players in the hand who might have a 7 for my taste. Against just one player, i think your line would have had better ev.

subsinind · Apr 21, 2017

The most important point is at 1/2 or 1/3, when we go all in at the river, we have to have nuts because they are gonna call 90% of the times even when they feel they are beat. It's what donks say afterwards "what a call".

jsnake716 · Apr 22, 2017

I didn't re-buy I left the table. I analyzed the hand and my game play a few times today and I think my biggest mistake was raising on the turn. Had I just flatted, I could have bluffed the river making him think I have the flush,jamming my stack.

Wow, In my opinion, your looking at this hand entirely wrong. You turned a set, why are you thinking of turning this hand into a bluff on the river?? !st of all the river was the A , if Villain is a thinking player that is not a good card to bluff on. Villain actually played his hand pretty much standard, flop bet ?? maybe maybe not , Your play is to fold on the flop, failing that after the set comes on the turn , you flat the bet, there is a 4 card straight on board??? and then check back the river to lose the minimum. We can't win every hand, our job is to try and maximize our value when we win and minimize when we lose. One other thing, you said you never put 77s in his range?? that is confusing as an UTG open with 77 is in his range?? I did not understand that comment at all. Thanks for sharing your hand though

EDIT: I am by no means an expert cash player, I am putting in some work trying to improve and these thoughts are just the things I say to myself , when I go through my own review. I make mistakes every session. I hope you know that I am trying to help

Jillychemung · Apr 23, 2017

spairone said:
and I think my biggest mistake was raising on the turn.

Fold or 3-bet from the BTN here. UTG raises so unless you have a read otherwise (which should have been in the OP), you'll be set-mining only here but it's 4-way so you can get into some sticky spots on some flops. If UTG has been active and showing more than a 10% range from his EP opens then I like to 3-bet here ($55+ depending on reads of other limpers) to isolate and play my superior position.

As played, that flop is way to wet for you to continue here, yeah, you have 1 diamond blocker but you aren't drawing to the nut ST8, so even if you hit a 7 or a 6 on the turn you can be in a world of hurt.

Beanfacekilla · Apr 30, 2017

spairone said:
Last night playing at the Wynn in my usual 1/3 game. On the button I get dealt 6h6d. UTG opens up with a raise of $15 pre flop. 2 callers + me. 4 ways to a flop. Flop comes 9d8d5h. UTG leads out with a bet of $30. MP folds I call SB folds. Turn card is the 6 of spades. Awesome!I turned a set + a gut shot straight draw. Before we started the hand I had about $360 behind. The guy who I'm heads up with has a little but over $400. He bets $50 on the turn. I think for about 10 seconds and decide to raise. I bump it up to $150.00. He flats.
River is the Ace of Diamonds completing the flush draw. He checks,then I shove all in. At this point I'm putting him on JJ TT QQ JT,9T. I know he can't have pocket 9's because he probably would have bet bigger to get me off the flush draw. I beat pocket 5's and 8's are definitely out of his range.Player thinks for about 10 seconds and then makes the call. I flip over my hand assuming I'm going to take this pot down and to my disgust he turns over pocket 7's!(black cards) I really did not put that hand in his range. He got lucky with his 4 outer on the turn,technically a 2 outer based on my holdings.

I didn't re-buy I left the table. I analyzed the hand and my game play a few times today and I think my biggest mistake was raising on the turn. Had I just flatted, I could have bluffed the river making him think I have the flush,jamming my stack.

What other ways would you guys play this hand? What did I do right? What did I do wrong?

I haven't read the other replies. Here we go...

So, I am totally fine with preflop play. Standard. You are calling to setmine.

After the flop is where it gets tricky. Why are you calling the c bet? Like what turn cards are good besides a 7? Even if you hit a straight, it puts a 4 straight on board, and we don't want that. It kills our action. If we hit a set, same thing, we don't really know if we are good for sure.

Now, we shouldn't have seen the turn, because we supposed to fold the flop. However, as played, you raising turn forces him to play correctly and only continue with a hand that beats you (straight). You said you didn't expect him to have that, well, he folds nearly everything else (it is live, but come on there is 4 to a straight out there).

So, since we see turn, our only option is to just call, and keep him betting with worse. We can't raise here. You value owned yourself, and it began with a bad call on the flop. You should be thinking about what board will be if you hit a set or a straight, and what will that do to getting paid off? It's gonna be tough, and worst case (as you found out first hand), it is a reverse implied odds disaster. You hit a card, but it made his hand instead. Not good.

So yeah, call pre, just fold flop. We aren't besting anything and our draws all suck (we have very little equity). Fold flop. Next hand.

Beanfacekilla · Apr 30, 2017

smuryof said:
You didn't have a gut shot straight draw, the whole board had a gut shot straight draw. Anyone with a Ten would have taken it, at that point.

And this. You need to study poker some, learn some things, nothing personal. We all start from somewhere, myself included.

$1/3 Live: Did I play my set right?

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