$1/$2 NL Cash Game: bottom set vs all-in and call

pitter22

pitter22

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There were 3 limpers in front of me (im CO) and i look down at a pair of red threes. So i limp in aswell. BU folds. 6 playes on the flop and im in position.

Noteable Stacks:
SB: $32
MP: ~$250
CO (Me): ~$160

Flop: Pot ($12)
Ah 3s 8h
SB: All-in for $30
3 players fold.
MP: Calls $30
CO (Me): ??????????????????

Im very happy with this flop, except the hearts.

the SB has been playing very tight and only playing strong hands but would have raised PF with a super strong A or pocket A's. After his all-in im putting him on a weak ace or 2-pair.

MP is a good player who hasnt shown down many hands since i sat down and has picked up a few pots. He has been playing quite a few hands so hes pretty loose. After his call im putting him on a better A or a heart draw.

I know im definately not folding in this spot but do i raise? or just call and see what happens next?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Raise/shove/put lots of money in the pot until you have none left.
 
Steveg1976

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Pot bet the flop, shove the turn, take a big pot for lots of monies
 
Steveg1976

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So your saying here to raise 70-75 ? what if MP calls and a heart comes????

If you pot it and he calls he has made a very expensive mistake, you will already have put in 2/3 of your stack and can't fold. Your pot bet will be a comitting bet. Also you can't know he is chasing the flush he might have something else AKo for example. Basically by Betting this way you are making it impossible for him to bluff the flush if the card does come as you won't fold. Also if he is crazy chaser and makes the flush not all of his flush outs are clean as you can make a fullhouse to win.
 
pitter22

pitter22

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If you pot it and he calls he has made a very expensive mistake, you will already have put in 2/3 of your stack and can't fold. Your pot bet will be a comitting bet. Also you can't know he is chasing the flush he might have something else AKo for example. Basically by Betting this way you are making it impossible for him to bluff the flush if the card does come as you won't fold. Also if he is crazy chaser and makes the flush not all of his flush outs are clean as you can make a fullhouse to win.

Very true but if we are putting villain on AKo dont we just wanna call to extract more chips from out MP ? i am interested as to why slow playing is completely out of the option?
 
vanquish

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Very true but if we are putting villain on AKo dont we just wanna call to extract more chips from out MP ? i am interested as to why slow playing is completely out of the option?

So that scare cards don't come on the turn and kill our action and to make it look like we could possibly be (semi)bluffing.
 
pitter22

pitter22

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so if we decide to slow-play and a heart comes on the turn and he bets into us on the turn we fold this ??
 
vanquish

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so if we decide to slow-play and a heart comes on the turn and he bets into us on the turn we fold this ??

No, but it'll be less likely that we can get a stack in against a hand we beat.
 
tenbob

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You need to ask yourself is this one of the times we need to slowplay ? With a 3x pot shove and a call, I don't think this is one of these times, cold calling here is terrible, and we are in an ideal spot to overshove.

I dont fold to a turn bet if we cold call, but then again with this board texture i never call. Actually with top set on the dryest board ever I dont cold call, so im never in that spot on the turn.
 
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jaymorin123

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in this position u have to get a raise in there because he could easily have ace king,jack,queen, ect.. and if he has a flush draw u cant give him a free card cause he might fold to a big bet on the turn, but not on the flop.
 
Steveg1976

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Very true but if we are putting villain on AKo dont we just wanna call to extract more chips from out MP ? i am interested as to why slow playing is completely out of the option?

If he will call a bet if the turn comes a blank then he will call a bet on the flop. Also if he has AKo and the 3rd heart comes on the turn it is a scare card for him as well as you. Slow playing in the case doesn't help you get anymore out of your opponent but does reduce the amount you can. This isn't a classic slow play situation where you are holding the stone cold nuts, you have a great hand but it can lose. You need to maximize your expectation and in this case checking in no way increases the amount you are likely to win.
 
pitter22

pitter22

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Thank you all for the great responses... i agree with the raise i was just trying to get some different reasonings for it. Well heres what happened...

CO(Me): raises $45 to $75
MP: folded
SB: shows 10h5h.
Turn: A
River: cant remember

but this created some discussion at the table because if i flat call the flop i extract more out of the MP which had A7o. he said i would have gotten it all in... but i still knew that my play was right. maybe even pop it up more on the flop and my reads were vice versa. i had MP on heart draw and SB on weak ace.
 
zachvac

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Thank you all for the great responses... i agree with the raise i was just trying to get some different reasonings for it. Well heres what happened...

CO(Me): raises $45 to $75
MP: folded
SB: shows 10h5h.
Turn: A
River: cant remember

but this created some discussion at the table because if i flat call the flop i extract more out of the MP which had A7o. he said i would have gotten it all in... but i still knew that my play was right. maybe even pop it up more on the flop and my reads were vice versa. i had MP on heart draw and SB on weak ace.
lol you only get his stack if he hits the 2-outter. Meanwhile since this guy's stacking the second A I'm assuming he'd stack AK in that spot so if he has AK you give him 9 outs to find a fold. We don't want to let the board get nasty and give him a reason to fold. Betting also prices out draws. So if they do have a draw, it gives them a free card. If they don't, it gives them one more possible reason to fold when you really don't want them to fold.
 
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