Originally Posted by RogueRivered
I don't really understand the concept of "pot commitment." I guess it means you can't fold if the pot is large, but if you know you're beat, shouldn't you fold anyway?
But if you have odds, how can taking the bet be bad? In the long run, you'll win. You just don't give yourself as many ways to win by calling vs. raising.
I'm not stating this very well, so bear with me.
I prefer being the aggressor in this hand and representing a strong hand from preflop through the turn, even though we're just on a draw. I love the flop raise because it does just that, and would prefer continuing representing a very strong hand. In that sense, it sort of doesn't matter what the odds are, nor what your hand is, because Hero's saying he's perfectly happy to get to a showdown (i.e., Hero's repping AQ, KQ, overpair, etc.) - and you're hoping to take the pot without a showdown.
The other extreme would be to flat preflop and flat the flop and evaluate the odds of hitting the fd on the turn. On a passive table, or in a passive hand, it's fine and correct to evaluate the odds and whether to call based on odds. A strong Villain or two, though, makes this line really difficult to execute effectively more than once or twice, because they'll start making it too expensive to draw on such hands whether they have a hand or not - i.e., once they figure out that specific players or the table generally is drawing a lot, they'll start giving poor odds to call.
My leak I was referring to is when I start getting into that more passive mode - I'll hit a draw or two in passive mode, then I start making marginal calls that scream to anyone paying attention that I'm drawing, and I get exploited badly by smart Villains. I'm trying to force myself into the aggressive mode as much as possible. From a pot odds standpoint, a turn bet doesn't make any sense. From an aggression standpoint, not betting the turn (IMO) doesn't make any sense.
One side note - it's unlikely Villain will pay you off to a river bet once the flush hits if you play a relatively passive line, it's obvious Hero hit his draw. For the aggressive line, though, it's not clear that you were drawing at all - so you're more likely to get paid by a river bet.
For pot commitment - I was thinking if the play had run with a pf raise of $.20, and a flop bet of around $.40, you'd have 1/3 of your stack in before the turn. If I'm willing to put 1/3 of my stack in at the flop, I ought to be willing to put my entire stack in if Villain forces the pace - and I'm looking to make a turn bet of around $.80 to $1, which means I may as well put your whole stack in because there isn't enough left to protect or to make a good river bet. So, if I look at my hand and the playing situation and think I don't want to be playing my stack here, I shouldn't have 1/3 of my stack in before the turn, because that effectively commits me to playing my stack.