$0.10 NLHE Full Ring: : QQ facing 3Bet-shove of 37BB.

alienat3d

alienat3d

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Hello, although i'm posting pretty often hands at the section "Tournament Hands Analyze", this is currently my very first cash game hand in CC! :star:As i am trying myself at cash games now, probably not the last one.
Well it's really really weird hand have to admit. Took me a lot of time and effort to fold and i'm still asking myself, was it a right move or was it freaking worst nit-fold ever? Unfortunately i had at that spot very limited hands seize on villain, only 23 hands, but, hell, it looked like he was folding simply every hand until i did a raise in this one and then he shoves 37BB, which looked very strong to me, so i did decided to fold queens, as i thought such a tight guy wouldn't do this with AQ or JJ or TT. Most likely AA or KK, well maybe AK too, if he was kinda freaky one. But the price of risk was too high to me. How would you play on that spot?




iPoker - €0.10 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4


CO: €12.26 (VPIP: 27.91, PFR: 23.26, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 43)
BTN: €10.38 (VPIP: 30.86, PFR: 24.69, 3Bet Preflop: 9.38, Hands: 82)
SB: €21.71 (VPIP: 55.17, PFR: 44.83, 3Bet Preflop: 35.71, Hands: 30)
BB: €3.70 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
UTG: €11.77 (VPIP: 15.52, PFR: 8.62, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 59)
Hero (UTG+1): €4.25
MP: €9.25 (VPIP: 19.05, PFR: 11.90, 3Bet Preflop: 5.71, Hands: 85)
MP+1: €3.70 (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 9.60, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 127)


SB posts SB €0.05, BB posts BB €0.10


Pre Flop: (pot: €0.15) Hero has :qs4: :qc4:


fold, Hero raises to €0.30, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to €3.70, fold,
 
Lorpugo

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correct fold move on. it is either coin flip vs ak or you are dominated aa kk.
 
Figaroo2

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You are sitting with a stack size that flags you as a beginner....
Stack size of the opposition and nothing played in 23 suggests a total beginner waiting for a hand to shove. As you have no other information as to his range then folding and waiting for a better spot is prudent. In my experience I've seen all sorts of hands shoved like this but often as a tilt shove but there is no indication of that here.
 
H

hagaic

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A more realistic range for short-stack 3bet shoving is at least JJ+,AK (3% of hands) vs which you have 47.4%, your required equity to call according to pot odds is 45.6% so you should call.

Villain folding for the past 23 hands means nothing, since he could be waiting for a top 3% hand to shove.

BTW the "either a flip or crushed" argument is a fallacy since there are a more AK combos than KK+, so it is more like "usually a flip, sometimes crushed, and maybe even crushing".
 
Bozovicdj

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I think mathematically it is a call. Also, I don't really see someone shoving with that stack with AA or KK, rather an ordinary 3-bet to about 7-8BB. Therefore, I would put the opponent on AK, JJ, TT or even AQs, AJs. I'd advise, do not fold such hands too often, as you might catch yourself folding too many hands pre-flop due to someones 3-bet.
 
Four Dogs

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Hello, although i'm posting pretty often hands at the section "Tournament Hands Analyze", this is currently my very first cash game hand in CC! :star:As i am trying myself at cash games now, probably not the last one. Well it's really really weird hand have to admit. Took me a lot of time and effort to fold and i'm still asking myself, was it a right move or was it freaking worst nit-fold ever? Unfortunately i had at that spot very limited hands seize on villain, only 23 hands, but, hell, it looked like he was folding simply every hand until i did a raise in this one and then he shoves 37BB, which looked very strong to me, so i did decided to fold queens, as i thought such a tight guy wouldn't do this with AQ or JJ or TT. Most likely AA or KK, well maybe AK too, if he was kinda freaky one. But the price of risk was too high to me. How would you play on that spot? iPoker - €0.10 NL - Holdem - 8 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 4 CO: €12.26 (VPIP: 27.91, PFR: 23.26, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 43) BTN: €10.38 (VPIP: 30.86, PFR: 24.69, 3Bet Preflop: 9.38, Hands: 82) SB: €21.71 (VPIP: 55.17, PFR: 44.83, 3Bet Preflop: 35.71, Hands: 30) BB: €3.70 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23) UTG: €11.77 (VPIP: 15.52, PFR: 8.62, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 59) Hero (UTG+1): €4.25 MP: €9.25 (VPIP: 19.05, PFR: 11.90, 3Bet Preflop: 5.71, Hands: 85) MP+1: €3.70 (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 9.60, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 127) SB posts SB €0.05, BB posts BB €0.10 Pre Flop: (pot: €0.15) Hero has :qs4: :qc4: fold, Hero raises to €0.30, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to €3.70, fold,
The problem with short stack play is that it limits you're ability to play speculative hands like small pairs and suited connectors leaving only big preflop hands, like AJ-AK, and big pairs LIKE QQ! I don't care too much for short stack play, but if you're not going to call with QQ then you shouldn't be sitting at a table with just 37bb's. This is exactly the situation you want. But for the sake of argument, let's say he only has AK or KK-AA. How far behind do you think you really are? QQ is only about a 60% to 40% dog to this range, meaning that you need to be getting about 1.5:1 to call. Well, in this case you're getting about 1.22:1 so you're only a slight dog. BUT, 27 hands is way too small to put someone on AA-KK or AK only, 100k hands is too small a sample for that! Add in the one combo of Queens and your about break even, add Jacks in and you're a favorite. Start adding in hands like TT's or AQs, which he's afraid to see a flop with and you're Queens are crushing him. This is a call any day, any time against player, including your nitty grandmother.
 
B

braveslice

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I would agree on above comments saying that you can't fold for so many reasons, all of them already said.

Like Four Dogs says, 'this is your dream scenario' while playing short stacked. That said folding is not really a big mistake imo. @Fig plays full ring though, I do 6max, so his opinions is most likely more correct than mine.
 
zwbb

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Most likely, AA or KK, maybe, AK, I would play, and QQ would also throw away
 
WhereDidMyEVGo

WhereDidMyEVGo

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The problem with short stack play is that it limits you're ability to play speculative hands like small pairs and suited connectors leaving only big preflop hands, like AJ-AK, and big pairs LIKE QQ! I don't care too much for short stack play, but if you're not going to call with QQ then you shouldn't be sitting at a table with just 37bb's. This is exactly the situation you want. But for the sake of argument, let's say he only has AK or KK-AA. How far behind do you think you really are? QQ is only about a 60% to 40% dog to this range, meaning that you need to be getting about 1.5:1 to call. Well, in this case you're getting about 1.22:1 so you're only a slight dog. BUT, 27 hands is way too small to put someone on AA-KK or AK only, 100k hands is too small a sample for that! Add in the one combo of Queens and your about break even, add Jacks in and you're a favorite. Start adding in hands like TT's or AQs, which he's afraid to see a flop with and you're Queens are crushing him. This is a call any day, any time against player, including your nitty grandmother.
I like this analysis. I call as well.
 
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