Your Epiphanies

ericgarner118 · Sep 24, 2009

After playing poker for a little while now, I've had a couple "Ah-Ha" moments. So far they have been few and far between, but I have been getting some of them. A couple I've had so far:

Most people don't think about poker (at or away from the table)
You can do everything right, and still lose.
I may be winning, but overall still suck
People aren't ALWAYS bluffing

I was just curious as to what epiphanies you guys have had regarding poker and how long did it take you to learn them? Did anything happen to make you realize them or did it just come to you one day?

Vollycat · Sep 24, 2009

Trying repeatedly to win a $5 MTT to make a 'big score' when ring games at 5/10 or 10/20 (limit even) pots reach $200+ consistently.

Win a $400 pot at 10/20 which takes 5 minutes, compared to 4+ hours at the MTT's. Hence, improve your ring game!!!

jordanbillie · Sep 24, 2009

Vollycat said:
Trying repeatedly to win a $5 MTT to make a 'big score' when ring games at 5/10 or 10/20 (limit even) pots reach $200+ consistently.

Win a $400 pot at 10/20 which takes 5 minutes, compared to 4+ hours at the MTT's. Hence, improve your ring game!!!

Yeah but if you are playing 10/20 NL a $400 pot is nothing. You can also get stacked for $2K in 5 minutes at 10/20.

jordanbillie · Sep 24, 2009

Mine comes from tournament play:

Even though it may be % wise correct to make a certain play, you have to factor tournament life into your decision and be more patient when thinking of moving allin.

Dogfish44 · Sep 24, 2009

Micro Limits... Utter rubbish.

Having been playing the Take 2 Promotion for 23 of the 25 required days now, at 1/2c level, I have come to the conclusion that the phrase 'micro-stakes' is absolute bollocks.

I re-deposited $30 on Sept 2nd and started playng the T2 Promo on the 1/2c micro stake tables, the first 5 days were pretty easy and even profitable to the tune of an extra $3 in my bankroll. However, having reached the $15 mark I have now noticed that the level of competition and/or the cards dealt have completely screwed me and I now only have $11.56 left for the remaining two days, and having to really grind it out just to get my FT Point for the day, meaning that at the end of the promo and claiming my $50 (assuming I don't lose any more!!) I will only have in the region of $60 in my bankroll, and not the $80 I had hoped for.

Firstly, as this post implies, micro stakes... an interesting concept in NLHE, especially when raising to 3xBB and then having some donk go all in for $2.77 (or more) in a 1/2c game!?!?! Folding my A5s I then see that my nemesis is bluffing with 6,2,o.

Secondly, flopping the full house doesn't mean you've won the hand... I'm dealt pocket J's, the flop comes 10,10,J... I bet 2/3 the pot, I'm called. Turn card 8... I bet again 2/3 pot... called again. River card is Q and my nemesis goes all in... I think he's bluffing as I've already made it as clear as possible I have a monster. So I call only to see he has QQ. I've just lost my $1. I was not happy to say the least.

So back to my point... How is it possible to play Micro stakes in a NLHE cash game?

Vollycat · Sep 24, 2009

Dog,
Not to be rude, but I totally do not understand what you are getting at within this thread. Is this just a mistake on a hijack? Just curious.

Second, taking your post for face value...is this a bad beat complaint? To what you have written all I can say is, if you play 100% perfect poker you are guaranteed absolutely nothing on any individual hand.

I just don't have anything else to say about that.

TPC · Sep 24, 2009

Dogfish44 said:
Having been playing the Take 2 Promotion for 23 of the 25 required days now, at 1/2c level, I have come to the conclusion that the phrase 'micro-stakes' is absolute bollocks.

I re-deposited $30 on Sept 2nd and started playng the T2 Promo on the 1/2c micro stake tables, the first 5 days were pretty easy and even profitable to the tune of an extra $3 in my bankroll. However, having reached the $15 mark I have now noticed that the level of competition and/or the cards dealt have completely screwed me and I now only have $11.56 left for the remaining two days, and having to really grind it out just to get my FT Point for the day, meaning that at the end of the promo and claiming my $50 (assuming I don't lose any more!!) I will only have in the region of $60 in my bankroll, and not the $80 I had hoped for.

Firstly, as this post implies, micro stakes... an interesting concept in NLHE, especially when raising to 3xBB and then having some donk go all in for $2.77 (or more) in a 1/2c game!?!?! Folding my A5s I then see that my nemesis is bluffing with 6,2,o.

Secondly, flopping the full house doesn't mean you've won the hand... I'm dealt pocket J's, the flop comes 10,10,J... I bet 2/3 the pot, I'm called. Turn card 8... I bet again 2/3 pot... called again. River card is Q and my nemesis goes all in... I think he's bluffing as I've already made it as clear as possible I have a monster. So I call only to see he has QQ. I've just lost my $1. I was not happy to say the least.

So back to my point... How is it possible to play Micro stakes in a NLHE cash game?

Ok, first off, you are not following proper bank roll management. With only a $30 BR you can't play in any ring game using proper BRM. You should have at least 20buyins for any ring game you play. You shouldn't be calling any all in with A5s or even thinking about it, if it's preflop. The reason you need a minimum of 20 buyins is do to variance, the only problem is starting out at the lowest level, you don't have any level to drop down to if you go on a downswing.

You are playing 2nl, full of a bunch of idiots, people that don't care, and whatever else. Sorry to say it, but you are going to see some of the same stuff no matter what limit you play, it's part of poker.

Playing 2nl, take everything you've ever seen on TV and throw it out the window. Play tight, play only the top ten hands, and play on a bunch of tables at the same time. These players are idiots, they don't adjust you can play ABC poker forever, and they will never adjust. Grind out as long as you need to playing that way and you will make money in the long run, trust me.

ethon · Sep 25, 2009

TriggaLos said:
Ok, first off, you are not following proper bank roll management. With only a $30 BR you can't play in any ring game using proper BRM. You should have at least 20buyins for any ring game you play. You shouldn't be calling any all in with A5s or even thinking about it, if it's preflop. The reason you need a minimum of 20 buyins is do to variance, the only problem is starting out at the lowest level, you don't have any level to drop down to if you go on a downswing.

You are playing 2nl, full of a bunch of idiots, people that don't care, and whatever else. Sorry to say it, but you are going to see some of the same stuff no matter what limit you play, it's part of poker.

Playing 2nl, take everything you've ever seen on TV and throw it out the window. Play tight, play only the top ten hands, and play on a bunch of tables at the same time. These players are idiots, they don't adjust you can play ABC poker forever, and they will never adjust. Grind out as long as you need to playing that way and you will make money in the long run, trust me.

QFT!

slycbnew · Sep 25, 2009

I had help w all my epiphanies, all from people who are currently active here on this forum or were active in the last year...

1. If villain folds, my hand doesn't matter, so what are my chances of stealing this pot/what are the chances that if I bet here, he'll fold?

2. Fold equity = steal equity

3. Being too tight means nobody who's serious about poker and paying attention to my style of play (i.e., using a HUD) will pay me off.

4. Since I look like a nitty TAG to anyone using a HUD, I can blow them off their hands once in a while by being aggressive.

5. Categorizing villain types allows me to exploit specific things about regs.

6. Play the player, not my cards.

7. Pot odds shouldn't dictate my decisions by themselves, need to look at fold equity and implied odds as well.

8. I'm not the only one who doesn't hit the flop.

slycbnew · Sep 25, 2009

ericgarner118 said:
[*]You can do everything right, and still lose.

I laugh when people at my tables obviously don't get this (but I never ever ever point it out to them)...

From The Poker Mindset by Taylor and Hilger, quoting Craig Hartman:

"Everybody will eventualy run worse than they thought was possible. The difference between a winner and a loser is that the latter thinks they do not deserve it."

ericgarner118 · Sep 25, 2009

slycbnew said:
I had help w all my epiphanies, all from people who are currently active here on this forum or were active in the last year...

1. If villain folds, my hand doesn't matter, so what are my chances of stealing this pot/what are the chances that if I bet here, he'll fold?

2. Fold equity = steal equity

3. Being too tight means nobody who's serious about poker and paying attention to my style of play (i.e., using a HUD) will pay me off.

4. Since I look like a nitty TAG to anyone using a HUD, I can blow them off their hands once in a while by being aggressive.

5. Categorizing villain types allows me to exploit specific things about regs.

6. Play the player, not my cards.

7. Pot odds shouldn't dictate my decisions by themselves, need to look at fold equity and implied odds as well.

8. I'm not the only one who doesn't hit the flop.

1, 5, and 8 are all things that I'm still working on. Once I finally get them I'm sure I'll do nothing but get better. It's hard sometimes to do some of the player specific things at the lowest levels, right now I'm mostly playing my cards and going on a little of what I figure about my opponents.

slycbnew · Sep 25, 2009

ericgarner118 said:
1, 5, and 8 are all things that I'm still working on. Once I finally get them I'm sure I'll do nothing but get better. It's hard sometimes to do some of the player specific things at the lowest levels, right now I'm mostly playing my cards and going on a little of what I figure about my opponents.

At micro, this isn't a bad idea, ABC poker is good at micro cuz villains make really bad mistakes in hand reading - you can make money at micro without being fancy.

I'd start looking at villains who have absurd rates of betting (bad aggressives) and calling them down lighter than normal, and villains who are incredibly passive (bad passives) and folding when they bet if I have anything less than TPTK.

Pokertron3000 · Sep 25, 2009

A terrible player is always bluffing, usally when I call this player he has the nuts so this is one.

Conversely players who bet near every flop and turn do not always have the nuts which makes me fold too much sometimes you have to trust your reads 100%. This is hard for a sng player sometimes.

tjyff · Sep 25, 2009

Dogfish44 said:
Having been playing the Take 2 Promotion for 23 of the 25 required days now, at 1/2c level, I have come to the conclusion that the phrase 'micro-stakes' is absolute bollocks.

I re-deposited $30 on Sept 2nd and started playng the T2 Promo on the 1/2c micro stake tables, the first 5 days were pretty easy and even profitable to the tune of an extra $3 in my bankroll. However, having reached the $15 mark I have now noticed that the level of competition and/or the cards dealt have completely screwed me and I now only have $11.56 left for the remaining two days, and having to really grind it out just to get my FT Point for the day, meaning that at the end of the promo and claiming my $50 (assuming I don't lose any more!!) I will only have in the region of $60 in my bankroll, and not the $80 I had hoped for.

Firstly, as this post implies, micro stakes... an interesting concept in NLHE, especially when raising to 3xBB and then having some donk go all in for $2.77 (or more) in a 1/2c game!?!?! Folding my A5s I then see that my nemesis is bluffing with 6,2,o.

Secondly, flopping the full house doesn't mean you've won the hand... I'm dealt pocket J's, the flop comes 10,10,J... I bet 2/3 the pot, I'm called. Turn card 8... I bet again 2/3 pot... called again. River card is Q and my nemesis goes all in... I think he's bluffing as I've already made it as clear as possible I have a monster. So I call only to see he has QQ. I've just lost my $1. I was not happy to say the least.

So back to my point... How is it possible to play Micro stakes in a NLHE cash game?

very slowly and very carefully =) (player who made $400 so far playing micro)

PNJs_dad · Sep 25, 2009

My one true epiphany is....

I stink at ring games. So I try to stay with tourneys.

ted80 · Sep 25, 2009

the biggest epiphany i had was the day i realized some players are so easy to read...and the fact that making quick notes is an awesome idea. being attentive really payed off. started off as a real wuss...and you can do all right doing that against weak competition...but it's a step up figuring out how the especially bad ones are playing. when you know you can make your opponent fold 90% of the time regardless of your hand unless they've really hit something sweet...that's a lot of free chips and a hint on when to get out of a pot too. and knowing when "that guy" is going to call whatever you bet is also a good advantage to know when to keep the pot small or blow it on up. also wanted to just be the third post from the city of norfolk. whether you're a navy dude in the usa or in norfolk, uk, haha. norfolk!

ericgarner118 · Oct 4, 2009

Anyone else had any poker revalations?

StormRaven · Oct 4, 2009

For me I think it was that I could be bluffed! The first time someone showed a bluff to me I was truly shocked! I wasn't raised to play poker that way. The next one was when I realized bluffing could be very profitable!

Sysvr4 · Oct 4, 2009

I'm almost embarrassed to say it, but mine came after playing limit hold em for several months... maybe even a year. I used to pride myself on correctly determining whether or not I was behind in a hand and then making the fold. I got such pleasure from being right in those moments until I realized that it's not whether you're behind that matters... it's whether you're getting the right odds to catch up.

That's about as elementary as it gets as far as revelations go, but there you have it

KerouacsDog · Oct 4, 2009

'don't be a wimp and limp, raise is the new craze!'

SavagePenguin · Oct 4, 2009

That King on the flop (or turn or river) probably scares him as much as it scares me.

(...but if I bet, it gets scarier for him.)

Peterr211 · Oct 5, 2009

my epiphanies usually come and go . . . lost somewhere between when I get put out and when I buy back in . . .

1 - I think too much about getting bluffed off a semi-decent hand - stop making dumb calls

2 - I need to quit getting in trouble when the board pairs . . .

3 - Never bluff a big stack . . . esp. online . .

GCB · Oct 5, 2009

TriggaLos said:
Playing 2nl, take everything you've ever seen on TV and throw it out the window. Play tight, play only the top ten hands, and play on a bunch of tables at the same time. These players are idiots, they don't adjust you can play ABC poker forever, and they will never adjust. Grind out as long as you need to playing that way and you will make money in the long run, trust me.

And read Harrington on Cash Games, Vol. 1.

the lab man · Oct 5, 2009

I have had a couple in the last 2 weeks

1.How come I get sucked out on the river way more than I suck out on the river.
Answer-Because I am way ahead most times That I get my chippies in.

2 Stick to NLHE and I will be more profitable

3 This one has taken years but, I have stopped playing marginal hands out of Position

KerouacsDog · Oct 5, 2009

GCB said:
And read Harrington on Cash Games, Vol. 1.

is HOC relevant to 2nl? serious question.

Your Epiphanies

ericgarner118

Rock Star

Vollycat

Rock Star

jordanbillie

Legend

jordanbillie

Legend

Dogfish44

Rock Star

Vollycat

Rock Star

TPC

Legend

ethon

Rock Star

slycbnew

Cardschat Elite

slycbnew

Cardschat Elite

ericgarner118

Rock Star

slycbnew

Cardschat Elite

Pokertron3000

Available for parties

tjyff

Enthusiast

PNJs_dad

Rock Star

ted80

Rock Star

ericgarner118

Rock Star

StormRaven

Cardschat Elite

Sysvr4

Rock Star

KerouacsDog

Legend

SavagePenguin

Put the win in penguin

Peterr211

Enthusiast

GCB

Rock Star

the lab man

CardsChat Irregular

KerouacsDog

Legend

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