Can you remove emotion pride and ego from your poker game?

I think anyone who can remove emotion pride and ego from their poker game will instantly become ten times more successful regardless of their skill level. Beginner's luck in my opinion is usually a lack of expectations and therefore an acceptance of whatever happens which results in profits more often than not. It is only when a gambler convinces themselves they should win or deserve to win, etc. that emotion and pride can wreck a bankroll.

I had a friend who I gave poker lessons to for several months - taking him from the point where he would pay off a bet and a raise on the river with ace high to the point where he has won several tourneys with over 1000 1st place prize (live) However, at some point he convinced himself he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and has since had dramatic downswings. For the last year, he has lived a roller coaster ride way above his financial means and I finally had to distance myself from him - which was hard because he paid for poker lessons and gave me 150 dollars anytime he won more than 1000. Ultimately, the money and our friendship just weren't worth the negativity and anger he displayed when taking bad beats or when I told him I thought he played a hand poorly - example - calling a preflop raise and re -raise with 22 out of position board comes QQ10 5 4 and he triple barrels into two opponents - I didn't teach him that.

The whole experience has made me get back to my lifelong philosophy to only gamble when I am feeling optimistic about life in general and to pretty much stick to live limit holdem and Omaha with some blackjack thrown in- Im taking a nice two week vacation from Michigan winter to go to Florida and play golf every day and 5 -10 limit every night so my question to all is how often has pride or ego hurt or destroyed your bankroll? Are there any zen masters out there who truly feel they not only refrain from tilt but convey a confident and optimistic outlook ? Also, who feels that playing live is much easier to be social and friendly while online leads to the worst of human emotions both in your opponents and yourself?

love that omaha said:

How often has pride or ego hurt or destroyed your bankroll?

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Looking back to my bankroll-busting days online, I think ignorance was mostly the root of the problem- ignorance of proper brm, and poker fundamentals. I haven't busted a bankroll in a long time, but I still lose too many hands to ego and impulse.

love that omaha said:

Are there any zen masters out there who truly feel they not only refrain from tilt but convey a confident and optimistic outlook ?

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Not going to name names, but I can think of several players here who set good examples for the rest of us in that regard.

love that omaha said:

Also, who feels that playing live is much easier to be social and friendly while online leads to the worst of human emotions both in your opponents and yourself?

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Loaded question there, but I do think live poker is a more social activity than online. That said, I try not to let the social aspect of live play distract me from the game, and I sometimes get suspicious that chatty players are attempting to get baseline reads.

If it can be removed, it'd be of little use, since a person would obviously be identified as a "bot" afterwards, and be banned from the game,lol.

I have not busted my bankrolls as well for Long time , but that said i still lose loads of Hands due to my ego.. agreed with rifflemao on that Point .. cos thats me as well. ego n pride can wreck your bankroll for ever.

it happend to many of my friends. and the Thing is now a days idonttell them much cos it can destroy your friendship if you tell them that they ve leaks. instead of leakfinding they ll think you are not good enough or you are jealous of their games. it s always no win Situation , even if we actually think of better Thing for our friend.

That's a good point about teaching friends - I almost never make a comment about how someone plays a hand at blackjack, trying to keep a friendly atmosphere at the table. Ironically I had met this friend playing blackjack and when he got himself self banned from casino because he lost 7 grand in a session. Maybe it is like a man trying to teach his wife how to golf, it never works out.

Poker in general is not compatible with emotions.

I think the 3 components that define a pro from a good amateur are the following

Emotional control in all areas of your game

Concentration - an ability to maintain sharp focus (this is a gift most wont ever
have it) Which is why poker should be treated as a hobbie not an obsession.

Finally work ethic, you have to put in to get out, desire, manifestation, and an art of development and persistency in the right areas.

As hulinada has mentioned poker tournament will adventually drain all your energy it's soul destroying because the amount of hours and the amount of near misses you experience in pursuit as massive gains, also the swings of tournament poker are not healthy for anyone who has emotional attatchment to poker

Emotions ... I'm really frustrated when I lose a big hand but that does not give you the right to insult someone, I call you an idiot, and so on. In such a game, I do not enjoy. I like the friendly atmosphere at the table. I love to talk, get to know each other ... the world is small, why would not they met? And I also think that every emotion (anger, happiness, anger ...) corrupts concentration and a bad influence on the game. Ultimately, let the best man win

No emotion, staying cool from bad beats, always put your chip in +EV situation, knowledge of bankroll management and odds. All of these are necessary for a long-term poker winner. Most losers put too much ego and pride into the game. My advise is that try to play your best game and don't play much attention about the profitability until you play at least 100K cash game or 1K tournaments.

Hope all is going well and nice to meet you. Well wishes for the upcoming holidays and New Year; I hope your new year brings success and happiness. I am no Zen master but I am working on tilt this stems from the back end of my game. I have never taught poker but have two coaches who are also friends. I see and understand your post being on the student side, understanding how much commitment it takes to help someone; and the commitment needed from the student as well.

Reading two books about the mental game, how the thinking about certain aspects of poker, and how my brain actually perceived what was going on. Overconfidence from thinking I was solely responsible for my winning and blaming outside sources when getting beat. Just from this tilt can form. Having a feeling of being invisible at the table can turn good emotion into bad because a person will try and keep this feeling. The player will start to play without thought, and expect to win or they unconsciously pull back so they will not lose. When variance starts then accumulation tilt will start as well; a buildup emotion from accumulating beats and then blaming outside sources as the reason. The player then will chase loses trying to bank a win to relieve the feeling of getting beat. However, winning is only a temporary fix and emotion will return when any loss shows up. I have experienced this and am currently working on improving this weakness.

This could be why the player seems to have moved away from what is being taught, they started playing unlike themselves because they were not themselves. This will help with understanding in which you observed your friend playing outside of what was taught to them. For example, revenge tilt could explain why they were calling out of position and three barreling opponents; to get back at a specific opponent or the game itself. They now feel entitled to winning because of their perception of their skill against a specific opponent or their perception of how they mastered the game poker.

These thoughts turn into bad decisions and mistakes follow that show up in the back end of any players game. Ego and emotion are killers in poker because they get assigned in error to why good or bad things happen when playing the game because most do not understand how they can derail our game or take our focus away when playing well. I am currently writing down my tilt triggers and making a mental model of my game. Recognizing the triggers that start tilt I know can prevent further tilt or snap myself back into my optimal game.

Just saying this does not mean it is in control or that it is fixed by writing things down. This is just a step in a long process of working on my weakness of my game. I am starting to see some improvement because of writing things down and then writing things down after a session. Then cross referencing the information and this helps seeing small improvements. This is important because otherwise I could say this is not working and quit this process without realizing it was actually helping my game. I hope you find the answers that you seek.

love that omaha said:

I think anyone who can remove emotion pride and ego from their poker game will instantly become ten times more successful regardless of their skill level. Beginner's luck in my opinion is usually a lack of expectations and therefore an acceptance of whatever happens which results in profits more often than not. It is only when a gambler convinces themselves they should win or deserve to win, etc. that emotion and pride can wreck a bankroll.

I had a friend who I gave poker lessons to for several months - taking him from the point where he would pay off a bet and a raise on the river with ace high to the point where he has won several tourneys with over 1000 1st place prize (live) However, at some point he convinced himself he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and has since had dramatic downswings. For the last year, he has lived a roller coaster ride way above his financial means and I finally had to distance myself from him - which was hard because he paid for poker lessons and gave me 150 dollars anytime he won more than 1000. Ultimately, the money and our friendship just weren't worth the negativity and anger he displayed when taking bad beats or when I told him I thought he played a hand poorly - example - calling a preflop raise and re -raise with 22 out of position board comes QQ10 5 4 and he triple barrels into two opponents - I didn't teach him that.

The whole experience has made me get back to my lifelong philosophy to only gamble when I am feeling optimistic about life in general and to pretty much stick to live limit holdem and Omaha with some blackjack thrown in- Im taking a nice two week vacation from Michigan winter to go to Florida and play golf every day and 5 -10 limit every night so my question to all is how often has pride or ego hurt or destroyed your bankroll? Are there any zen masters out there who truly feel they not only refrain from tilt but convey a confident and optimistic outlook ? Also, who feels that playing live is much easier to be social and friendly while online leads to the worst of human emotions both in your opponents and yourself?

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Pretty much, you have to be calculating and basing your decisions on more important things than your ego lol

Well I have freerolled and small buy in my way to 100 dollars from 0, my new rules are tourneys only as I flushed about 180 of a 300 dollar upswing in November playing plo Omaha hi lo -- 2 tourneys a day maximum and then on to more important things - Ive dropped 25 lbs in a weight loss bet I have to get under 210 lbs - at 222 right now. So two tourneys a day except for when there is a Cardschat freeroll 3 and take a minimum of two days off with no poker. I was able to buy a 40 inch smart tv and new coat for myself and all the presents I got for family etc off bovada winnings from sept to November so maybe online poker will be worth it.

Great post, I like this. Yes one can definitely remove emotions, pride and ego from their poker game. One can definitely remove this things from poker game.

"I think anyone who can remove emotion, pride and ego from their poker game will instantly become ten times more successful regardless of their skill level." Damn true, but I also think that that is aggression, which help you to win the game.

What's the emotion? Poker and emotion are two different things, then either lucky or not.

I have no problem keeping my ego out of my game, I pretty much have no poker ego. I find it hilarious when I see players at my stakes arguing with eachother about making correct plays. Especially when they are both losing players. Calling eachother fish this fish that, donk this donk that.

We are playing at 4nl guys, we are all fish!







Caveat: Just some are fishier than others..........

I think there are many times that emotions play against us when we have to make a decision... sometimes pride leads us to lose big pots for not pressing the buton will not go.
Also hoping to want back what we have lost, as always, makes us chosse the wrong path.

love that omaha said:

Are there any zen masters out there who truly feel they not only refrain from tilt but convey a confident and optimistic outlook ?

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Well, I'm no zen master but I know that Martin Jacobson is a strong believer of maintaining a healthy lifestyle in order to play well. He eats healthy foods, used to work out obsessively, and he would sometimes even go for a short run outside of the casino to reset his mental state if he was playing poorly. Oh, and he does yoga and plays very confidently as well so he is pretty much a zen master Lol

Yes one can definitely remove emotions, pride and ego from their poker game. I am sure it would help much

I do not believe you should try to be a machine. It sucks to take a bad beat, or a bad downswing, and everyone has a tipping point, but emotions are a vital part of who we are. The better approach is to recognize how you are feeling, figure out why you feel that way and use that information to make good decisions. Sometimes the best choice is to quit. Sometimes it is to play. Personally I try to play with very positive emotions. I enjoy the game more, won more, and accept disappointment better when it comes.

GWU73 said:

I do not believe you should try to be a machine. It sucks to take a bad beat, or a bad downswing, and everyone has a tipping point, but emotions are a vital part of who we are. The better approach is to recognize how you are feeling, figure out why you feel that way and use that information to make good decisions. Sometimes the best choice is to quit. Sometimes it is to play. Personally I try to play with very positive emotions. I enjoy the game more, won more, and accept disappointment better when it comes.

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I like this answer best...short, sweet and to the point. We know there are bad beats, we know there are downswings, etc and when you start to think and dwell on the downswings, suckouts, bad beats they become the focus of your game. Do what you can to eliminate those emotions..shake it off and jump right back on that horse (when you feel ready).

Pulp Fiction is full of great quotes that transfer to poker, here are 2!

Marsellus: You see, this profession is filled to the brim with unrealistic players. players who thought their (butt) would age like wine. If you mean it turns to vinegar, it does. If you mean it gets better with age, it don't.

Marsellus: The night of the fight, you may feel a slight sting. That's pride messing with you. Forget pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps.

I try to play poker without any emotion. It's poker! )

Most certainly, but everyone is going to run card-dead every now and again, or face a bad beat. The hardest part from me is walking away for a little when I know I'm tilting.

Pride destroyed my bankroll many times, especially on live poker. At least with the years, I can control this way better than before.