YES - NO QUESTIONS / SURVEY ?????

1) If you were to be playing a game of poker online heads up, with any poker scenario you want to make it, stack size, cash, tournament, etc… for real money and were against a software program (bot), do you believe that all human emotions and the consideration of thought and concern of the consequences vs. outcome are missing from this type of opponent?

2) Would you prefer playing against humans online, with what they may or may not bring to the table when real cash is involved?

3) If you played a million hands of poker online, for real cash, with the exact cards being dealt through out, both against a human, and a bot, do you believe the statistics one way or the other would be different?

4) If you had a choice when playing for real money online, which would you choose, a Bot or a Human?

1. Maybe
2. Depends
3. Not unreasonably so.
4. Depends

And no, I'm not being a smart ass. I don't think the answers are cut and dry in my mind.

yes yes yes and human

Fair enough J.D. But, right after reading this post, you were to take a thousand dollars cash to a heads up match, how would you answer #4 being forced to make a decision?

if your saying the computer runs just off the numbers this is easy. A bot. All u do Raise each hand preflop if they call u check/fold otherwise steal their blinds. then it comes down to luck of catching more cards.

I'm not saying anything. Just asked some questions? Not asking for advice on how to beat a bot once you realized your playing one?

quads said:

Fair enough J.D. But, right after reading this post, you were to take a thousand dollars cash to a heads up match, how would you answer #4 being forced to make a decision?

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Bot, every time. I can outplay the limited logic in their programming and don't have to worry about irrational decisions since the bot won't tilt when I run over it.

So I assume thats a choice of playing the bot.

quads said:

So I assume thats a choice of playing the bot.

Click to expand...

Jack Daniels said:

Bot, every time.

Click to expand...

Would seem so, wouldn't it.

Yes, I was a little to fast with my response.

How are we ever sure we are playing a bot?

If against one long enough their play becomes somewhat repetitious. But if the user realizes your play changed against his bot, he just will jump in. If you went into a game knowing it was a bot, you could probably detect its program design and take advantage of it quicker. Bots will play to their design however the programmer wants it to play 100%. Humans for the most part will alter their play online for any number of reasons. The first being their human. Heres a quote I read, "bring your laptop to a blackjack game with a card counting program loaded into it, or to a poker game with a poker program in it, and flop it on the table". "Let me know what happens"?

Nice change from the "rigged" posts. Been hearing alot about these bots, but never actually heard of a case where one was detected, seen or demo'ed. Not a trustworthy case, that is...

Knowing a little bit about mathematical programming (second hand stuff, i couldnt programme to save my life), I can imagine they can be made. Using the basis from say PT, you should be able to make something that adapts to a table and various opponents after a bit. Sampling sizes would matter alot, so my guess would be on smaller sites with fewer players.

I have leafed through most of the "rigged" threads, but always looses patience. Have we seen a quality post on this??

Heres another quote I read:

Let me give you a quote from Darse Billings the lead
designer at the University of Alberta’s Computer Poker Research
Group, presently involved in the development of an artificially
intelligent automaton known as “Vex Bot,” capable of playing
poker at the master level.
‘A program that can think’
“With chess—I don’t want to trivialize it—but it’s just a matter of
calculation,” he said. “With poker, you really need to write a program
that can think about the game and reason.” The solution, in
the case of the Vex Bot, was adding a layer of artificial intelligence
over its ability to calculate probabilities. “It will show you things
that no human player has ever shown you before,” Billings said of
the latest incarnation of the bot, which also has the ability to model
its opponent’s behavior. “…One of the biggest advantages that programs
have is that they have no fear, no shame. Humans can be
intimidated. They will back off in the face of a very aggressive
player. A bot will not. It has no compunction about doing whatever
it will take to win. It will raise you with any two cards if it thinks
that it has a very slight advantage based on your history. And it can
induce a lot of anger and emotional upset. These things are ‘tilt
monsters.’
You could rest assured that this research has not slowed a bit and in 2006 are already in use online.

Now here is a quote from Ray Bornet whose company makes
WinHoldEm, a programmable pokerbot. Mr. Bornet criticized
poker sites for singling out his firm’s products-which includes a
“Team Edition” that allows players to see one another’s cards, in
violation of rules against collusion.
“We take issue with the poker sites because they do not do
enough to communicate the fact that it is impossible to physically
secure their no-bots, no-teams policies in an online environment,”
he wrote in reply to an e-mail question. “…If the poker sites cannot
physically secure their no-bots, no-teams policies then they
need to cease their persecution of players who are resorting to
such measures in order to adequately defend themselves against
opponents that have already seen the light. Players should be free
to fight fire with fire without being bullied by the poker rooms.”

Huh? How are the quotes relevant? Am I missing something to the OP? Or is this going to turn into spam for bots?

Yea, got a point J.D., but thought I was just giving crancko a better view of things.