WSOP 2015 - The Dilemma Playing with Pocket Kings

Hey everyone,

Bringing you another hand from the wsop 2015 Main Event and wanted to talk about the dilemma when playing with pocket kings.

The second best hand to have pre-flop, yet you should play it carefully because it's hard to lay them down and you can lose a lot of chips with them, if you're not leading the hand.

Sure, there are situations where it's easier to lay them down, when there's an ace on the board, a possible flush or straight, but still...watch this video and tell me what you think - would you have played differently?

How do you play your pocket kings?

Thanks and enjoy!

You bet I'd've played that differently. Maybe call the flop to bink a king, but that would be the last I'd commit to that hand.

Jarvis' big mistake was checking dark. Players tend to do that when they already know they will check any flop, and there are two reasons for that: they're gonna fold to any bet, or they're gonna c/r. Jarvis did, indeed, c/r. He probably let Blumenfield save bets here. Still, I'd probably fold to that river bet.

Checking dark is just about the most fish thing you can do. No idea what he could have been thinking.

I dont think you should be calling just to set mine on the turn, you dont have the implied odds.

Call the check raise on the flop if you think you are good.

The raise was too small. maybe on the flop he could be sure he was beaten by the big reraise.

Typing from my phone so hope formatting works.

I don't agree with your thoughts on checking dark. If villain is planning to fold to any bet, then how did he get to the point he's seeing a flop? And the alternative is he's airway decided to check raise any board? You'd better have very specific reads to plan to c/r any board vs a guy who just 3! you. We can discuss those ideas too, but really I want to give some perspective on how to critically analyze a poker hand.

I hope that by typing my thoughts basically verbatim here, I can help some of you better understand the type of thought process you should engage in at the table in order to make sound decisions.

Hero is late position (2.2M)
MP covers

Effective stacks (2,200,000)
Dealt to Hero: K:club: K:spade:

MP raises to 85k, Hero 3! to 200k, MP asks how much is behind and calls 115k.

So first we need to figure out what range villain continues with here. Unfortunately we're in a vacuum, I don't know his tendencies to call 3! OOP, his MP raising range, or any of that. Heck I don't even know how deep he is, what the blinds are right now, or if ESPN's definition of MP matches mine! So with a lack of villain info here, I'm going to put his original range at {22+, ATo+, A9s+, some suited broadways, and some 87s hands}.

I really like Hero's 3!. Sizing is fairly standard for tournament poker, and sets up a pot that plays well for a big pocket pair. Hero manages to get ~10% of his stack in preflop, good place to be while holding a big pair.

So what is villain continuing with? Again, not having been present to observe play makes this hard. Smaller PP's aren't getting value to set mine, esp OOP, and weakish aces now have to worry about domination. At this point I think villain's range is something like {99+, AQs, maybe KQs, and some 87s type hands}. Note that I would discount hands I expect villain to 4! with. Therefore, I don't think it as likely he holds AA or AK.

My plan moving forward would be to try and get stacks in on basically any flop without an ace. Monotone red will give me pause, but that's about it.

Flop (505,000)
MP checks dark,

8:club: 6:club: Q:heart:

Hero bets 250k, MP raises to 635k, Hero???

So again we need to determine what villain's range is. Given what I'd previously assigned, I now think villain's range is something like {99, TT, JJ, QQ, AQ, KQ, flush draws, straight draws, and maybe an 88 or 86s}. The 88 is more probable as I imagined villain could perhaps continue with 99, and 88 isn't too much a stretch. 86s depends on previous observation and knowing if suited gappers are part of villain's MP raising range.

Based on this, I'm happy taking my kings in against that range. I further believe a good part of that range will give me action right now. AQ/KQ probably feel pretty good, 99-JJ could convince themselves we're trying to buy it with AK kind of hand, and draws I honestly don't care what they do. If they fold, I'm good with that, and if they wanna throw more money in with 8 or 9 outs, let's do this! So my answer is to jam over villain's c/R.

Actual play, Hero calls (385k)

Turn (1,775,000)
Effective stacks are now (1.75M)

8:club: 6:club: Q:heart: [A:spade:]

Oh, look, an ace! Perfect! So now AQ pulls ahead, but more importantly those 99+ holdings are shutting down. This ace crushes our 3! range, so the only hands that will call a jam on this card are either convinced were full of crap, or aren't worried about the ace. Since we ourselves are concerned with that ace (read it'd beat us) notice that betting here effectively induces hands we beat to fold and hands that beat us to call. Let's chalk this card up as another reason I like jamming the flop.

MP checks

We gain no info from this check. Villain would check basically his whole range here. I check behind for above listed reasons. Additionally. we're sitting with one pot sized bet remaining so a bet of any size might as well be jamming.

Hero checks

River (1,775,000)

8:club: 6:club: Q:heart: A:spade: [4:diamond:]

MP bets 820,000, Hero???

Hero has to fold here. Look at this from villain's perspective. Your range includes plenty of aces, and is in general quite strong. Unless villain is going into a while bunch of levels, he expects you to have a hand that can make this call fairly often. Because of this, I don't think villain bluffs often here, he's saying the ace doesn't worry him, and I like a fold.

I would have done a much larger 3-bet, maybe 400,000, on the initial round, though. I'd like to think I would have folded on the river with that ace on the board and the fact that Jarvis had raised preflop, called a C-bet, check-raised the flop and then led out with a strong bet on the river. He obviously had something.

I think that ace "saved" Blumenfield from raising on the river because it scared him, he should have folded the hand, but at least "just" called the hand and lost less than he could have lost had the ace came on board.

Rinor81 said:

Sure, there are situations where it's easier to lay them down, when there's an ace on the board, a possible flush or straight, but still...watch this video and tell me what you think - would you have played differently?

Click to expand...

It's easy to talk when you're not at the table. But, even without knowing the size of the stacks or the strategy up till that point by either of the players, or the size of the big blind, i think it was an poor decision to make that call after that flop thinking he was betting high a pair of queens. He probably thought it was an aggressive bet to make him fold his A,K, worried either one would beat QQ on the turn or river. But, it was a very high bet, and that assumes he did not consider that you might have a KK or AA even after your 250,000 flop bet. I'm not a pro and I don't pretend to be, but that guy seemed like he was making very amateur decisions for that level. Judging by the size of the stack of the guy who won that hand before he won it, I wouldn't feel comfortable making that call with only pair of kings, assuming he was trying to get me to fold with his QQ just for those stakes...
But again I wasn't at the table, and its easy to talk...

feliksinthemix said:

It's easy to talk when you're not at the table. But, even without knowing the size of the stacks or the strategy up till that point by either of the players, or the size of the big blind, i think it was an poor decision to make that call after that flop thinking he was betting high a pair of queens. He probably thought it was an aggressive bet to make him fold his A,K, worried either one would beat QQ on the turn or river. But, it was a very high bet, and that assumes he did not consider that you might have a KK or AA even after your 250,000 flop bet. I'm not a pro and I don't pretend to be, but that guy seemed like he was making very amateur decisions for that level. Judging by the size of the stack of the guy who won that hand before he won it, I wouldn't feel comfortable making that call with only pair of kings, assuming he was trying to get me to fold with his QQ just for those stakes...
But again I wasn't at the table, and its easy to talk...

Click to expand...

It's not about easy to talk or not.

The pros and best players can make you fold monster hands, think that a pair is not enough and it's nothing new but the best players play the opponent, not the cards.

In this case, I think I would have folded the hand and not called the river because of the ace that came on the turn, that was scary enough and not worth the risk of losing a lot of my stack...even if he's bluffing.

Not sure I have the best hand, don't call. It's a tournament and you have to be there for the long run, sometimes there are just risks and gambles not worth taken.

Rinor81 said:

Not sure I have the best hand, don't call. It's a tournament and you have to be there for the long run, sometimes there are just risks and gambles not worth taken.

Click to expand...

That's even more reason not to call such a big raise at that stage in the tournament with only a pair Kings. Sure it was a high pair, but its still only a pair.

As for playing the cards vs playing the opponent, I think that you can play the opponent too much and it can make you forget that you're actually playing the cards.... And thats exactly what happened here.

feliksinthemix said:

That's even more reason not to call such a big raise at that stage in the tournament with only a pair Kings. Sure it was a high pair, but its still only a pair.

As for playing the cards vs playing the opponent, I think that you can play the opponent too much and it can make you forget that you're actually playing the cards.... And thats exactly what happened here.

Click to expand...

I agree, he should have folded and the ace at the turn was enough to scare him and not risk so much chips, but I guess having KK at hand is too tempting to fold

The reason for folding the river isn't because the ace is scary for us, there aren't many aces in villain's range.

It's because the ace should be scary to villain, yet he doesn't mind making a bet that an ace will likely call. If he can expect us to have an ace fairly often, then makes a bet that should get called by that ace, he's either trying to extract value from a pair of aces or level us into a fold. Which line he's taking would be easier to discern with previous history, but the fact that hero here is viewed as amateur player, villain is skewed more to simply trying to extract value.

in that situation i think i would've gone all in on the turn when jarvis checked, because ace came.. maybe he would've been scared and folded.. anyway it's my play, but that guy lost minimum in that hand, so nicely played but unlucky

KarolisTisk said:

in that situation i think i would've gone all in on the turn when jarvis checked, because ace came.. maybe he would've been scared and folded.. anyway it's my play, but that guy lost minimum in that hand, so nicely played but unlucky

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I think the ace was scary, so going all-in? You sure?

Jarvis can afford to call and would have called even on the turn, so I'm not sure that's the right move, IMO.

Rinor81 said:

I think the ace was scary, so going all-in? You sure?

Jarvis can afford to call and would have called even on the turn, so I'm not sure that's the right move, IMO.

Click to expand...

i dunno, since i've not played any serious live tournament in my country, because there are none, I couldnt say how i would act live rather than online, but i think i would've gone all in with my kings and hope for the best, because i dont think i've lost that many hands with pocket kings and there is a good chance he folds because of that ace, since he was betting alot preflop, he put him on aces or kings