Won some money in a live game in Vegas but 30% were taken... how do I get these back?

Hi All,
Last week I was in the money in a small tournament in Vegas.
The casino took 30% ("withheld" is how they call it) of my winning money and gave me a form called 1042 of the US IRS.
I live in Israel and the poker room manager told me that I can get this 30% back in Israel through my accountant.
Anyone has more information about this subject? Can I really get this 30% back? Is it different rules for difference countries?
Thanks in advance for your help.
ysmisc

You must have won a good size money pot. In the US, if you win over a certain amount (I think over $1000.. possibly over $500).. they take out a percentage for taxes.. right around 20-30%, and you have to fill out that form so that you don't have to pay it at the end of the year. Your winnings are considered "income."

Now, since you live in another country, you'll probably be able to get it all back.. or at least most of it, since you won it in the US. I don't really know. If you have an accountant in Isreal, it would probably be best to talk to them. They should know.. or, if you're still in the US, you might be able to talk to an accountant, here.

It's $600. A buddy of mine flopped a royal flush and won the jackpot at the Nugget while our group out there this summer. The jackpot was at $598 at the time and the manager told him he was lucky since if the jackpot had been $2 higher, he'd have had to fill out all the tax paperwork.

Mortis said:

You must have won a good size money pot. In the US, if you win over a certain amount (I think over $1000.. possibly over $500).. they take out a percentage for taxes..

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I've never had a penny withheld from any of my winnings. Tourney or cash games.

I hit a "bad beat jackpot" twice. Once at Hawaiian Gardens ($a 10k JP) and once at The Commerce (a 5k JP).

They took my tax info both times. But they never took a cent. Just the info.

BTW. The one at Hawaiian Gardens was the coolest. My friend and I agreed to share winnings that day. We were at the same table, and it's him that I hit the BBJP with. How cool was that? Me and my friend walked out with $5,000.00 ea. Me <--AAAAK Him <-- AAAQQ

That was a good day indeed.


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CAPT. ZIGZAG said:

I've never had a penny withheld from any of my winnings. Tourney or cash games.

I hit a "bad beat jackpot" twice. Once at Hawaiian Gardens ($a 10k JP) and once at The Commerce (a 5k JP).

They took my tax info both times. But they never took a cent. Just the info.

BTW. The one at Hawaiian Gardens was the coolest. My friend and I agreed to share winnings that day. We were at the same table, and it's him that I hit the BBJP with. How cool was that? Me and my friend walked out with $5,000.00 ea. Me <--AAAAK Him <-- AAAQQ

That was a good day indeed.


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Maybe it varies from state to state.. I dunno. I haven't heard of them just taking money from people like that before, either... just going by what the OP had said.

I figured it was up to the person to do their taxes, instead of the casino taking it.

everyone and myself included, never had any money withheld, but they needed to see are ss# and provide info to IRS.
ysmics did you have USA ss#, i doubt it. that is probably why monies were withheld, plus i don't believe you'll get it back.
your country may not have those income tax guide lines, but we do and you pay the tax were you won the money.
for instance if we go to are border state they have a state tax that we have to pay, in our state there is none.
hope that's clear.
but if you could prove losses more than winnings, you should be able to recoup all the $$$.
don't know what your tottal circumstances are. gl

Another reason why taxes are just plain dumb.

How is something one WINS, an income?

Hi all,
Thanks for your answers - I do not have an SS# and it seems the 30% is taken for all players over a given amount won. For example I know for sure that the 30% is taken from Canadians as well.
I will try to talk to some accountants here but it seems the current ones I talked to have no idea about this issue (and specifically about the 1042 IRS form related to it).
I hate these complex tax rules that I cannot understand... (They seems complex on purpose )
If anyone knows more about what I can do I will appreciate it.
(BTW I cannot prove loses in front of these winnings as I had an amazing stay in Vegas that day and was in the money on ALL of my 3 tournaments that day - Lucky day).
Best
ysmisc

LOL SAH.....Some people play poker for a living...which means...ANYTHING that they WIN is INCOME.

If you have a buddy who won the lotto and won 20 million and says "I'm going to give all of my friends 20k" That 20k is also income.

Remember the big deal when Oprah gave away cars to a bunch of people...They ended up having to pay tax on those cars too...It sucks, but, income is income...

Personally, I think a 10 or 15 percent income tax across the board is what we in America should go to...but, that'll never happen...It would put too many people out of work.

You need to seek the advice of a tax advisor. A 1042s is given to any non resident alien (non us citizen) to report taxable income. And poker winnings are taxable. In the financial industry the tax rate is based on the country you are from and the treaty the US has signed with them in regards to taxable income, or 30%. For some countries this treaty allows for some income to be exempt from taxation, these exemptions usually have a specific amount and are fairly strict in regards to their source. I doubt casino winnings would be exempt.

I had never heard of anyone who has ever had anything taken up front like you did, but it might be because of your non-citizen status. The IRS wants their cut, and they can't come after you very easily for not paying it if you are a non us citizen living over seas.

You may be able to get some of it back, but you won't be able to get all of it back, the IRS will want keep some of it at the very least.

~H

Taxes

The casino I play at gives you the option to pay the taxes yourself or pay it on the spot. They have to report all winnigs I think over 599.00 to IRS. You can win 450.00 twenty times on the same day and never have to pay taxes on it----cause they only flag if you go over on a single payout. Play the smaller tourneys and keep it all.

Harthgrepa said:

...

I had never heard of anyone who has ever had anything taken up front like you did, but it might be because of your non-citizen status. The IRS wants their cut, and they can't come after you very easily for not paying it if you are a non us citizen living over seas.

....
~H

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Thanks for your information.
In the table I played last time we were 1 from Israel, 1 from England, 1 from canada and 1 from germany Not even one citizen of the US (Las Vegas is really anyone from anywhere tables) and they all knew about this 30% law (Which I have never heard about before).
Anyway I will seek some accountant advice but I fear that the accountant's fee will be higher than the tax
Again thanks
ysmisc.

Well this may not be on point, but in order for us as Americans to keep are winnings from Poker, Lotteries any and all other income. There is a plan out there to gid of the IRS and all Federal Goverment taxes. It is called "The Fair Tax" and everyone should know about this plan. It is time get involved to take the power way from the lobbyists and are failed representatives and turn that power over back to the people of this country. That is only if you want keep all of your winnings.

I'm suprised to hear this. I would think after showing them a passport that you wouldn't have to pay a thing. I know the casinos here will take money from you if you win a certain amount. I don't know what that amount is but I think it's $500.00. I've never won that much so I don't know.

rotocub said:

It's $600. A buddy of mine flopped a royal flush and won the jackpot at the Nugget while our group out there this summer. The jackpot was at $598 at the time and the manager told him he was lucky since if the jackpot had been $2 higher, he'd have had to fill out all the tax paperwork.

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Holy crap I think I was at the same table... And he's right it's 600.... I'm a a religious Pai Gow player

wow thats amazing! ha i have never seen a royal flush! and how did he only win 598? what kinda game was it?

Youngerhov said:

Holy crap I think I was at the same table... And he's right it's 600.... I'm a a religious Pai Gow player

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It was on Monday night (or very early am hours on Tuesday), 7/14 (or 15).

Yankees5 said:

wow thats amazing! ha i have never seen a royal flush! and how did he only win 598? what kinda game was it?

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NL Holdem in the poker room at the Golden Nugget. The high hand jackpot for the royal flush was at $598 that particular night.

CAPT. ZIGZAG said:

I've never had a penny withheld from any of my winnings. Tourney or cash games.

I hit a "bad beat jackpot" twice. Once at Hawaiian Gardens ($a 10k JP) and once at The Commerce (a 5k JP).

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How long ago were your wins? In 2008 the IRS changed the rules requiring all casinos to tax poker tournament winnings on site at the time of the win.

here in iowa at one time you had to pay state up front if you won over a 1000 and you had the option of paying federal now or later but that might have changed.