Why The Smart Play Cash & Fools Play Tournaments

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Rational Madman

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Whether or not IQ is really intelligence or simply one form of intelligence, there clearly are smarter and dumber people on Earth. I am not saying that the smartest will win the most in poker but they definitely won't lose as much and not nearly as often as the less intelligent players.

Let's first address the classic line that I hear from tournament defenders: You lose less because you can't lose more than your buy-in. While this is true, what they fail to see is that in cash games your bad beats are far more rapidly made up for with your consistent wins as bad beats happen only minority of times. Also if bets get huge, smarter players have the self control to fold a really great hand because the raise is getting to an amount where they wouldn't want to engage without the nuts.

Self control and having good read on players (as well as basic understanding of hand probability) are why the idea of only losing the buy-in is negated because you win back faster what you lost if you're a smart cash game player.

Tournaments are unfair on smart players because the luck later on means no matter how well you played so far, you can get knocked out due to big stacks going full loose aggressive and you know you can't win back what you lost, like you could in a cash game. On the other hand, this attracts the more foolish players because they know they can beat smarter players as the minimum bet increases meaning that the ones who took dumb risks earlier on now have the stack size to bully the smart players into all or nothing situations to tilt them into a high risk scenario.
 
Andrew Popov

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This is funny reasoning. Tell us about the shortcomings of tournaments for those who won a million dollars by paying a buy-in of one 10,000 of this amount ...
In the cache, you can break a bank in a million, only if you put half into it. :D
 
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This is funny reasoning. Tell us about the shortcomings of tournaments for those who won a million dollars by paying a buy-in of one 10,000 of this amount ...
In the cache, you can break a bank in a million, only if you put half into it. :D

Your English is very strange, I cannot understand what you are trying to say.
 
sryulaw

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It is totally wrong about this, it is not what is a game of money, are or not intelligent about a game of play, much, I say a lot even if they play tournament also play Cash Game. A clear example, research on PS Aakkari, now that this SCOOP tournament record is playing and always has an open money Game table of 150 dolals or less. He plays on both ..
The unique reality and players of Cash game have more facility in to play post-flop, due to an experience that they have of the cash,
 
Andrew Popov

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I'm sorry, my English is really bad. I'll try to write in simpler phrases.

Tournament poker allows you to win an amount thousands of times higher than your buy-in.
You will never achieve the same results in cash games.
To play a cache with banks in thousands of dollars - you must have the appropriate bankroll.
Professionals will be your rivals in cash games at high limits.
In large tournaments a lot of random weak players.
 
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onondaga

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maybe here u can post some new graph of ur results in cash game, coz @vinnie waiting in other thread (im the best mtt plaer in the world) waiting without results :D btw, what limits do u play? any proof?
 
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maybe here u can post some new graph of ur results in cash game, coz @vinnie waiting in other thread (im the best mtt plaer in the world) waiting without results :D btw, what limits do u play? any proof?

The proof is my business
 
ankitantil

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This makes no sense. You sounds unprofessional bro
I dont think if someone has skills he is gonna waste his time on short cash games. Ask people who won millions. Any expirenced player will tell you. Bydway doesnt matter you play cash games or tournament. Skillfull palyer always win. Pure skilled game.
 
Adriemoren

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Whether or not IQ is really intelligence or simply one form of intelligence, there clearly are smarter and dumber people on Earth. I am not saying that the smartest will win the most in poker but they definitely won't lose as much and not nearly as often as the less intelligent players.

Let's first address the classic line that I hear from tournament defenders: You lose less because you can't lose more than your buy-in. While this is true, what they fail to see is that in cash games your bad beats are far more rapidly made up for with your consistent wins as bad beats happen only minority of times. Also if bets get huge, smarter players have the self control to fold a really great hand because the raise is getting to an amount where they wouldn't want to engage without the nuts.

Self control and having good read on players (as well as basic understanding of hand probability) are why the idea of only losing the buy-in is negated because you win back faster what you lost if you're a smart cash game player.

Tournaments are unfair on smart players because the luck later on means no matter how well you played so far, you can get knocked out due to big stacks going full loose aggressive and you know you can't win back what you lost, like you could in a cash game. On the other hand, this attracts the more foolish players because they know they can beat smarter players as the minimum bet increases meaning that the ones who took dumb risks earlier on now have the stack size to bully the smart players into all or nothing situations to tilt them into a high risk scenario.

I don't think so
Play at tournament is very difficult
More le the better players and smarter play into tournament every time
However same players can play at Cash games very very well.
Some likes more Cash games and other like play at tournament or sit and go.
Is not a questions of smart is a questions of tastes.
I love the adrenaline of tournaments. The Cash games is so boring and slowly to me.
 
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I don't think so
Play at tournament is very difficult
More le the better players and smarter play into tournament every time
However same players can play at Cash games very very well.
Some likes more Cash games and other like play at tournament or sit and go.
Is not a questions of smart is a questions of tastes.
I love the adrenaline of tournaments. The Cash games is so boring and slowly to me.

Adrenaline junkie
 
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This makes no sense. You sounds unprofessional bro
I dont think if someone has skills he is gonna waste his time on short cash games. Ask people who won millions. Any expirenced player will tell you. Bydway doesnt matter you play cash games or tournament. Skillfull palyer always win. Pure skilled game.

Wrong, skilled player often can lose a tournament
 
vinnie

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The proof is my business

You said you would post your cash game graphs this week, to prove how great your game is. You're the best in the world, remember? You are going to prove it.

The proof would be your business, if you hadn't made these claims and promises. Unless you are willing to recant your claims and admit that you don't know how to be a winning player, you should step up and provide the evidence you promised.
 
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You said you would post your cash game graphs this week, to prove how great your game is. You're the best in the world, remember? You are going to prove it.

The proof would be your business, if you hadn't made these claims and promises. Unless you are willing to recant your claims and admit that you don't know how to be a winning player, you should step up and provide the evidence you promised.

You show
 
vinnie

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It is the responsibility of the person making extraordinary claims. Don't attempt to divert the attention away from yourself. Are you afraid to show your results? Afraid they won't prove your claims?
 
MattRyder

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I don't agree with you. I'm not that good at tournament play, but I see the genius in those that are. Cash games are a lot more straightforward (as you've pointed out), and I do agree that the better-than-average player will make a good living playing them. But tournaments are complex, with many different stages to go through, and many different skills to be called upon. Tournaments require excellent strategy and tactics. Cash games only require excellent tactics.
 
A

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Whether or not IQ is really intelligence or simply one form of intelligence, there clearly are smarter and dumber people on Earth. I am not saying that the smartest will win the most in poker but they definitely won't lose as much and not nearly as often as the less intelligent players.

Let's first address the classic line that I hear from tournament defenders: You lose less because you can't lose more than your buy-in. While this is true, what they fail to see is that in cash games your bad beats are far more rapidly made up for with your consistent wins as bad beats happen only minority of times. Also if bets get huge, smarter players have the self control to fold a really great hand because the raise is getting to an amount where they wouldn't want to engage without the nuts.

Self control and having good read on players (as well as basic understanding of hand probability) are why the idea of only losing the buy-in is negated because you win back faster what you lost if you're a smart cash game player.

Tournaments are unfair on smart players because the luck later on means no matter how well you played so far, you can get knocked out due to big stacks going full loose aggressive and you know you can't win back what you lost, like you could in a cash game. On the other hand, this attracts the more foolish players because they know they can beat smarter players as the minimum bet increases meaning that the ones who took dumb risks earlier on now have the stack size to bully the smart players into all or nothing situations to tilt them into a high risk scenario.

I don't even know where to begin. But still I'll give it a try.

1. Tournaments and cash games are two different types of games, one deals with speed & adjustments while the other deals with patience.
2. Luck plays a role in any format of the game, doesn't matter whether its a cash game or a tournament.
3. You'll find consistent winner in both formats. Now, if you're winning in cash game doesn't automatically mean that you'll be a successful tournament player (ever heard of Charlie Carrell or Fedor Holz?).
4. I agree that Cash game offers a lot of room for maneuvers, which is essentially a skill. But so does making adjustments.

To conclude, if you're that smart, you'll win at anything, any format, any challenges.
 
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I don't even know where to begin. But still I'll give it a try.

1. Tournaments and cash games are two different types of games, one deals with speed & adjustments while the other deals with patience.
2. Luck plays a role in any format of the game, doesn't matter whether its a cash game or a tournament.
3. You'll find consistent winner in both formats. Now, if you're winning in cash game doesn't automatically mean that you'll be a successful tournament player (ever heard of Charlie Carrell or Fedor Holz?).
4. I agree that Cash game offers a lot of room for maneuvers, which is essentially a skill. But so does making adjustments.

To conclude, if you're that smart, you'll win at anything, any format, any challenges.

Wrong, what you see on the as winning tournament player is still losing so many tournaments off camera and even on it including negreanu.

It's too much luck.
 
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I don't agree with you. I'm not that good at tournament play, but I see the genius in those that are. Cash games are a lot more straightforward (as you've pointed out), and I do agree that the better-than-average player will make a good living playing them. But tournaments are complex, with many different stages to go through, and many different skills to be called upon. Tournaments require excellent strategy and tactics. Cash games only require excellent tactics.

I have actual strategy in cash games, like I play the same hand so differently depending how long I've been at the table with another player and how deep a read I therefore have on them.
 
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I have actual strategy in cash games, like I play the same hand so differently depending how long I've been at the table with another player and how deep a read I therefore have on them.

And what is the rational behind it? Just read?

Wrong, what you see on the as winning tournament player is still losing so many tournaments off camera and even on it including negreanu.

It's too much luck.

Dude! Losing is a part of the game. You mean to say, you never lose in cash games?

What you're seemingly unable to understand is that any money you put in poker is an investment and investment is only measured against returns, not against the count of +/- or winning/losing.
 
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And what is the rational behind it? Just read?



Dude! Losing is a part of the game. You mean to say, you never lose in cash games?

What you're seemingly unable to understand is that any money you put in poker is an investment and investment is only measured against returns, not against the count of +/- or winning/losing.

You will go on the foolish tournaments, I will laugh and prosper.
 
onondaga

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You will go on the foolish tournaments, I will laugh and prosper.

Im sure, a lot of ppl write here just to be sign up for your thread! Nothing useful is finding here, just for "laugh and prosper", because laugh make your life longer! You are on the right way RM, good luck
 
R

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Im sure, a lot of ppl write here just to be sign up for your thread! Nothing useful is finding here, just for "laugh and prosper", because laugh make your life longer! You are on the right way RM, good luck

No, this is useful to those with brainpower sufficient to understand.
 
onondaga

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No, this is useful to those with brainpower sufficient to understand.

Ok, what part of ur advice can i use to improve my cash game? Boooo, nothing! Even less than nothing :D coz when i see how u try to look smarter, insulting other players, there is an impression that you even dont undetstand what u write.
 
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