Why is Slowrolling Bad?

I was watching the Poker After Dark when Cory Zeidman was on, where he gets accused of "slowrolling" Jennifer Harman in the wsop. The definition of slowrolling is "taking a long time to call when you have an obviously winning hand." It's considered very bad etiquette.

Now, I'm trying to understand this. I understand that dragging your feet and making others wait just because you want to be deceptive is extremely annoying. But aside from that, I thought a legitimate part of poker is to make your opponent think you have something other than what you have. If pretending to agonize over a call when you have a monster hand helps accomplish that, what is really the problem? It seems that "slowrolling" implies some kind of moral failure beyond just being tedious. But, I mean, nobody talks about "gamemanship" in poker because it's considered part of the game.

Somebody set me straight on "slowrolling." Thanks.

umm, if you are closing the action facing a shove on the river then "making your opponent think you have something other than what you have" is not relevant at all.

that definiton you linked to is pretty crappy.

Dorkus Malorkus said:

umm, if you are closing the action facing a shove on the river then "making your opponent think you have something other than what you have" is not relevant at all.

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So, you are saying slowrolling is only applicable when you are the last caller in the hand?

Its only a slowroll if there are no other possible decisions left in the hand and there is no way you are folding because you have a very strong hand.

Putting on an act to try to get more action is something else entirely.

yes, it's only really relevant when your action will be closing all the action in the hand.

say you have AA on an 83A7r board, taking your time to call a non-allin bet on the turn is fine because it might make you appear weak. let's say the river is an A (so the board is 83A7A) and your opponent shoves, taking a lot of time before calling would be slowrolling because your action is going to be the last action in the hand and you have the unbeatable nuts.

D'wilius said:

Its only a slowroll if there are no other possible decisions left in the hand and there is no way you are folding because you have a very strong hand.

Putting on an act to try to get more action is something else entirely.

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Got it, thanks.

Dorkus Malorkus said:

yes, it's only really relevant when your action will be closing all the action in the hand.

say you have AA on an 83A7r board, taking your time to call a non-allin bet on the turn is fine because it might make you appear weak. let's say the river is an A (so the board is 83A7A) and your opponent shoves, taking a lot of time before calling would be slowrolling because your action is going to be the last action in the hand and you have the unbeatable nuts.

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I can see how that would be very rude because it's totally unnecessary.

It's also a good way to possibly get a beat down in the parking lot if you do it at live tables.

juiceeQ said:

It's also a good way to definitely get a beat down in the parking lot if you do it at live tables.

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FYP

It's also a good way to possibly get a beat down in the parking lot if you do it at live tables.

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Agreed. I think its one of the worst things people can do at the table. Disrespectful.

Another example is a AJ843 board. At the show down the opponent flips one card, a Jack pretending thats all hes got.. The other guys shows the AK or whatever, and then the first guys shows the 8 for two pair.

Its just not needed. Deception at that point is just bad taste.

Yeah I see a lot of slowrolling while I am dealing and it is really annoying. It will be heads up on the river and there will be a bet and a call, the bettor (who is supposed to turn his hand up first and show what he has) will ask the caller "you have an ace? you have two pair?" and caller will flip up his hand, then the bettor will say, "Well I have a set" and he flips his cards.

Basically the bettor wants to see the cards of his opponent by "slowrolling" his hand. There is no rule against this, but it is very poor etiquette.

Also I hate when the guy with the nuts waits until the other 5 people in the hand flip there cards up, then he finally flips over his cards. It just wastes time.

Are we talking about an unbeatable hand because then yes it is rude.

But if your like me and overlook alot of things, then no.

Doesn't matter. If you think you have a legit hand and actually think you won you should show off the bat.

D'wilius said:

Its only a slowroll if there are no other possible decisions left in the hand and there is no way you are folding because you have a very strong hand.

Putting on an act to try to get more action is something else entirely.

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Dont take this as being rude because Im not trying to be, but is putting on an act to try to get more action a bad thing, I thought that was part of lasting a long time in a tourney (trying to get all the chips you can from a hand)?

Slowrolling is bad because on the river, when you're faced with all-in bet and your action is going to end the round, you either call or fold. If you're slow-rolling, aka hesitating or taking time to call with the best hand, then it's very out of manner. For example, let's say I have pocket Kings and you have rags and I flopped quads. On the river, you pushed all-in to bluff me, if I take time to call and then call, I'm pretty sure you'll be very angry.

I've slow-rolled few dickheads and retards in past just to piss them off intentionally. But other than that, you should never slow-roll people. I've slow-rolled idiots who bluff into an empty pot when I have the nuts, or slow-rolled dickheads who previously slow-rolled another person just to show how karma feels like.

NEVER EVER slow-roll unless if it's a person you have grudge against or previously pissed you off.

As for that hand Zeidman vs Harman, Zeidman got criticized because he was being a douche. When he was faced with an all-in bet, he had the absolute nuts aka straight flush. There's no reason for him to take his time to call. It should've been instant-call. If you're taking time to call on the river when you're last to act and you have the nuts, then you only make yourself look like a dick.

juiceeQ said:

It's also a good way to possibly get a beat down in the parking lot if you do it at live tables.

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This is why I refuse to play live with Tammy.

i do it a lot... especially in person... when someone bets big agaisnt me and i have the nuts... i let them sweat for a lil.. and feel uncomfortable... maybe its part of the strategy or maybe im just an @sshole at the table... either way it makes people uncomfortable.. and when people are uncomfortable sometimes they play worse..

billyth3kid said:

i do it a lot... especially in person... when someone bets big agaisnt me and i have the nuts... i let them sweat for a lil.. and feel uncomfortable... maybe its part of the strategy or maybe im just an @sshole at the table... either way it makes people uncomfortable.. and when people are uncomfortable sometimes they play worse..

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I'm going to guess it is not the strategy.

GCB said:

The definition of slowrolling is "taking a long time to call when you have an obviously winning hand." It's considered very bad etiquette.

Somebody set me straight on "slowrolling." Thanks.

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I have always considered slowrolling to be takeing a long time to show your cards. This is what makes it bad in my mind. If you think you have the best at the showdown you should show it soon not wait for a couple seconds after your opponent shows their hand.

If the definition is what you say I too think this is kinda being an ass but more acceptable than my definition.

I agree with what most people have said, a slow roll on the river with no more decisions to make is extremely bad etiquette.

Now in the process of playing out a hand to the river, it is every 'good' poker players duty to extract as much as they can from their opponents.

If I have a hand and another player bets out at me and I have the position to slow play the hand in order to get a bigger pot going I will.

Sometimes it's just a call, sometimes it's a check to make them think I missed the flop (or turn) but whatever the action is it is intended to extract chips NOT to embarrass or gloat about the hand.

Slow playing or not, I try to show respect to the others players at the table, just as I would expect them to show me.

Slowplaying and slowrolling are two very different things. The former is not only allowed but is sound strategy in some situations, the latter does nothing to affect strategy or outcome and is just inconsiderate.

NOTHING in poker pisses me off worse than being slowrolled!!! When I get sucked out on by a donk that hits a one outer, I can totally live with that, but if some slowrolls me I could almost reach across the table and choke them to death. As a matter of fact, when it happens online, I have almost thought to fly over to europe and beat someone with a stick .

So the bottom line is, don't do it to me or I'll find out where you live and beat you!!! (kidding of course)

ABSOLUTELY the lowest you can do..., in poker at least...
GL all

aC

billyth3kid said:

i do it a lot... especially in person... when someone bets big agaisnt me and i have the nuts... i let them sweat for a lil.. and feel uncomfortable... maybe its part of the strategy or maybe im just an @sshole at the table... either way it makes people uncomfortable.. and when people are uncomfortable sometimes they play worse..

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You just dont get it. As a CC member show a little more class at the table.

billyth3kid said:

maybe im just an @sshole at the table...

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This part is 100% accurate.