Why Don’t More Women Play Poker? Leading Poker Ladies Unite for Change

Robbie Strazynski

Robbie Strazynski

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Hi CCers,

I spent the better part of a month working on compiling this important article.

Why Don’t More Women Play Poker? Leading Poker Ladies Unite for Change

The goal was to get some of the strongest female voices in poker to speak publicly about what sort of progress they'd like to see as far as more women playing and participating in poker.

CardsChat news writer Jennifer Newell was among the participants, as were Poker Hall of Famer Linda Johnson, women's all-time tournament money leader Vanessa Selbst, poker TV presenter Kara Scott, among others.

Thus far, the response to the piece has been overwhelmingly positive. I've decided to post it here as well to help try and spread the word further. There are lots of players out there who need to read this and forums like CardsChat are "where these players can be reached".

I hope the ensuing discussion leads to positive change, and of course I'm happy to hear your thoughts on the piece if you have any. If you like it, you're certainly welcome to share via your social channels and help spread this important message.

If we want to see poker boom again, perhaps the engine behind it will be women-powered.

Enjoy,

Robbie
 
PsychoVas

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Great article, thanks for sharing!
 
Arjonius

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As a former marketing manager, I couldn't help but note the key point toward the end about poker not being marketed to women. For instance, where do we see ads for poker? On programs and in publications with male-heavy audiences, thus self-perpetuating the gender imbalance.
 
akaRobbo

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From watching on TV and the internet women players seem to usually be the weaker players at the table. Not bashing or discouraging women to play in any way, just this is what ive noticed. Only Vanessa Selbst springs to mind as a women player who is genuinely feared by top male players and who is hyper aggressive. I guess sometimes women just aren't aggressive enough compared to men, which is kind of understandable.
 
dealio96

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Did anyone see WPT ladies event ft that was on the other night?? I had to change it after 10 mins. Nothing against female poker players at all but that was terrible.
 
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Obviously because women are bad at poker.

So they have interests in things like baking, or knitting, or puppies, or something.




Just kidding ladies.
 
bkniefel

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As a former marketing manager, I couldn't help but note the key point toward the end about poker not being marketed to women. For instance, where do we see ads for poker? On programs and in publications with male-heavy audiences, thus self-perpetuating the gender imbalance.

Very true and well said. I agree not only with that but think about the history of poker. It ties in with your marketing experience. Think about all of those western films where you see men dueling it out or bar fighting over a game of poker. Pretty interesting to think about.
 
XXPXXP

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great article
think for female it is home game.
PS: for female, they have a lot of choice to spend leisure time rather than sitting at the poker tables. -- eg. Shopping......EEK
 
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Great article - read it and shared it. It's not a problem that's going away soon. There are jerks in both sexes but more often than not men can be unwelcoming and boorish at a poker table. They can act the same away from a poker table as well. Skill, poise, confidence and creativity will beat any jerk any day. Nurture and develop those attributes and sitting down in the midst of a pissing contest will be a piece of cake.
 
Robbie Strazynski

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Thanks to all of you who've read, shared and commented.

I just want to say there's are many reasons I've always enjoyed being a part of the CardsChat community, and your thoughtful, polite way of speaking is one of them.

Contrasting the CC members with members of other online poker forums that shall not be named is like comparing princes and princesses to a bunch of swarming trolls who seem to forget that their comments are seen by living, breathing people with actual feelings.

Best regards,

Robbie
 
Tammy

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Thanks to all of you who've read, shared and commented.

I just want to say there's are many reasons I've always enjoyed being a part of the CardsChat community, and your thoughtful, polite way of speaking is one of them.

Contrasting the CC members with members of other online poker forums that shall not be named is like comparing princes and princesses to a bunch of swarming trolls who seem to forget that their comments are seen by living, breathing people with actual feelings.

Best regards,

Robbie
Thank you so much, Robbie. That means a lot to us!
 
Debi

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I play in a live poker series a few times a year and recently played in the WSOPC at Harrah's Cherokee.

There were so few women all week and I was concerned about the turnout for the Ladies event on the last day because of that.

But we ended up having 177 entries. It would have been great to see more of those women playing in more of the the previous tournaments in the series.

I know part of the reason is that a lot of them work during the week - but even on the other weekend days it felt like representation of women was low.

Part of the problem is that a lot of these women are not experienced enough - and therefore not confident enough to play with men yet.

This is why we need to continue to have events specifically for women and why it upsets me when men complain about that. As they play more and more with other women they will gain experience and confidence - and some of them will gain the courage to play in open events.

I try to make sure that I talk about playing in open events - so they will know there are women in those events.
 
Arjonius

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Part of the problem is that a lot of these women are not experienced enough - and therefore not confident enough to play with men yet.
This is a multi-faceted problem. Another part is that women don't have the same kind of informal support network. It's much harder to talk poker with each other because there are far fewer of them. Yes, they can talk with men, but the confidence that you noted can be an obstacle. So can various other things such as the degree to which interests overlap. As a generalization, it's easier for men to hang around together more because they share more interests with each other than they do with women. It's easy for them to talk poker during male-heavy non-poker activities - easier than it is for women whose interests don't include as many of these activities to join them.
 
Debi

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This is a multi-faceted problem. Another part is that women don't have the same kind of informal support network. It's much harder to talk poker with each other because there are far fewer of them. Yes, they can talk with men, but the confidence that you noted can be an obstacle. So can various other things such as the degree to which interests overlap. As a generalization, it's easier for men to hang around together more because they share more interests with each other than they do with women. It's easy for them to talk poker during male-heavy non-poker activities - easier than it is for women whose interests don't include as many of these activities to join them.

This is true too.
 
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Another thought is that playing cards - poker in particular - is not a skill we introduce at a young age. Do you kids know how to play poker? How young were they when they learned? There's a lot to be learned about life from playing poker and from learning about gambling in general.


http://tinyurl.com/l487uq2
 
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I always tried to understand why more women don't play poker. Sometimes, when we play live poker in home games, some girlfriends also join the game, but I don't know any girl that plays online. I already explain to my girlfriends how to play, but no one liked. :(
 
S3mper

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Ummm, Women already dominate every other aspect of a mans life must they dominate us at the poker tables too???

At least we still have Sports Center... na na naa.. na na naa <--- Sports center music

In all seriousness I've only been in a poker room one time with no females playing poker in fact last week was playing live and 2 girls were at my table both sharks.. I welcome female poker players sure its for the wrong reasons such as they take the musky BO filled poker room and make it smell wonderful instantly.. I was absolutely amazed how good that room smelt..

The article mentioned women being intimidated by men, I think it's the other way around us men are intimidated by women. The guys saying "I'll fold cause she's a she" are really saying " I'll fold cause I'm scared shitless"

White, black, male, female, human, or alien I shall stack you and keep you having a good time while doing it =)

Or you know..... Get stacked by you then make up excuses so later I can make a thread and change certain details that I once knew was a lie but convinced myself it's how it happened so I can feel better about it..

Nun na nun nun na nun
 
LizRang

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I think women don't play as much poker because traditionally - we haven't. Girls do other things ... it's what their moms, society, everyone introduces us to. I found poker by accident and found out I loved it.

Of course everyone markets to men because that's the majority of players and the tradition. A company isn't going to spend thousands of dollars to recruit a handful of players when that same marketing money is going to get them a much better return if they target men.

It is sad to me that women (or anyone) would not do something due to feeling intimidated. I have played with people who act sexist. I have been in online rooms with jerks who were jerky to other people for other reasons. It doesn't matter. If someone is a jerk, they're gonna be a jerk regardless. And, I am gonna enjoy playing poker!

Thank you for posting that article. Very interesting topic! :)
 
Tammy

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Ummm, Women already dominate every other aspect of a mans life must they dominate us at the poker tables too???
Yes. ;)

I think women don't play as much poker because traditionally - we haven't. Girls do other things ... it's what their moms, society, everyone introduces us to. I found poker by accident and found out I loved it.

Of course everyone markets to men because that's the majority of players and the tradition. A company isn't going to spend thousands of dollars to recruit a handful of players when that same marketing money is going to get them a much better return if they target men.

It is sad to me that women (or anyone) would not do something due to feeling intimidated. I have played with people who act sexist. I have been in online rooms with jerks who were jerky to other people for other reasons. It doesn't matter. If someone is a jerk, they're gonna be a jerk regardless. And, I am gonna enjoy playing poker!

Thank you for posting that article. Very interesting topic! :)
I agree totally. Jerks are jerks no matter who they're being a jerk to. I don't play as much as I would like (I have a family, a job, free time is a rare commodity), but when I do play live, for the most part no one treats me any differently because I'm a woman (on the surface). But there are some times those "old timers" who obviously think I shouldn't be there, or that I can't possibly know what I'm doing and think they have me all figured out. I don't let that bother me, I relish in it, because I can almost always use it to my advantage.

But as I type this, I realize something I just said might be another indicator of why we don't see as many women playing. Family, jobs, mates. Women are typically the primary caregivers of families, and (fair or not) the bulk of the responsibility of raising kids and running a household (and in a lot of cases working full time too) falls on our shoulders. It leaves little time for much else. And, most of us (well speaking for myself, anyway) are not very good at making sure to take time for ourselves.
 
rifflemao

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I hope the ensuing discussion leads to positive change, and of course I'm happy to hear your thoughts on the piece if you have any. If you like it, you're certainly welcome to share via your social channels and help spread this important message.

Hi Robbie, interesting article that has sparked some lively debate in various places.

On the topic of how Ladies Events fit into the picture, it's worth looking at the wsop Circuit where most of them are played. In the 2013\2014 season, the circuit includes 22 stops, of which 14 offer a Ladies Event, so roughly 64%. What's interesting is where they fit in terms of reporting on the WSOP blog, the main reporting portal for circuit updates; as you'll see in a moment this can vary greatly from one season to the next.

Looking back, here are the available Ladies Event winner reports from the 2012\2013 season:

http://blog.wsop.com/2013/05/judy-bielan-wins-harrahs-philadelphia-ladies-event/
http://blog.wsop.com/2013/05/ladies-night-at-harrahs-philadelphia/
http://blog.wsop.com/2013/05/janic-king-wins-ladies-championship/
http://blog.wsop.com/2013/03/a-look-at-yesterdays-ladies-event/
http://blog.wsop.com/2013/03/bellas-got-her-bling/
http://blog.wsop.com/2013/02/loni-harwood-wins-again/
http://blog.wsop.com/2013/02/lady-champ-out-7th/
http://blog.wsop.com/2012/12/nancy-birnbaum-wins-again/
http://blog.wsop.com/2012/12/luck-be-a-lady/
http://blog.wsop.com/2012/11/sunday-recap/
http://blog.wsop.com/2012/11/the-lady-is-a-champ/


There are also several reports on women in open events (possibly more that I've missed):

http://blog.wsop.com/2012/12/delfin-in-good-company/
http://blog.wsop.com/2012/11/ladies-cursed-sengphet-out-7th-harwood-out-8th/
http://blog.wsop.com/2012/11/lets-hear-it-for-the-ladies/
http://blog.wsop.com/2012/11/more-wsop-circuit-history-and-records/
http://blog.wsop.com/2013/01/heres-to-the-ladies/


So at first glance, it looks like the WSOP frequently reports on women both in the Ladies Events and open events on the circuit. However, if you do a search on the blog for "ladies" and look at the dates of reports, you'll note that at the time of this writing there is only one Ladies Event report available for 2013\2014 season:

http://blog.wsop.com/2013/11/wsop-circuit-ring-holder-natasha-barbour-wins-ladies-event/

This means that with 11 Ladies Events played and just 3 to go, only 1 of the winners (9%) have been recognized on the WSOP blog. I'm not sure how best to market poker to women, but it seems that one of the easiest ways is to simply report the Circuit LE winners on blogs and social media to increase visibility at the most affordable buyin levels.

I don't know what accounts for the sudden drop in reporting, but I don't think the "non-ring" classification helps. The LE is a pendant event, so why classify it as non-ring? If it doesn't count in point standings (and it shouldn't), then just say so and call it a pendant event.

To sum up, in answer to the question of how Ladies Events fit into the picture, I'll ask this:


Who are the invisible winners of the 2013\2014 WSOP Circuit Ladies Events? :dontknow:
 
S3mper

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I wonder if I'd get boo'd if I joined a Ladies Event? I kind of want to not to protest an event or because I think it's unfair but because I would assume the field would be smaller with decent buy ins lol
 
rifflemao

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I wonder if I'd get boo'd if I joined a Ladies Event? I kind of want to not to protest an event or because I think it's unfair but because I would assume the field would be smaller with decent buy ins lol

You would get boo'd and your conscience would compell you to upload a video in your defense in which you read a cue card:


And for your troubles, your video would receive an endless stream of sexist comments and insults. It's not worth it. :afraid:
 
S3mper

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Ugh I also want to do it because I have a prop bet against BluffMeAllIn on who will get a bracelet first (poker) and a Ladies events size would increase my chances from 0 percent to well probably >1 percent.

lol

I could never do it and I will never do it not for moral reasons since I have no morals but to save face so I don't have to read a script apologizing
 
wanderingthehall

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Here's my 2 cents.

Poker is psychological game. Trying to make women more "comfortable" with the game just doesn't seem important to me when the whole nature of the game is to try and manipulate your opponents. Unless of course, you want to make them more comfortable to take advantage of supposedly "weaker players".

As a 27 year old woman, I have occasionally been looked down on at poker tables. But aside from one early tournament experience, it hasn't been an issue. The one tournament where I did have my negative experience, it pissed me off in a way that led to taking second in the tournament. So, I really can't complain. I understand that I am perceived differently, and treated differently at poker tables being a young women, and I love having that advantage. One thing I've read about a profitable poker table, is making everyone happy, comfortable, and relaxed. If I'm friendly and joke around, everyone is having a good time and might not pay quite as much attention to the game. I have a greater positive effect because of my gender. This whole gender inequality thing is an ADVANTAGE women have. If women are too sensitive and don't see this, well then frankly they need to toughen up or the game of poker might not be for them.

I've recently started playing in Ladies Events. So far, I've only played in 2 tournaments, but I've realized it's a fairly tight knit community that is a lot of fun to be a part of. Originally, I wanted to play in a Ladies Tournament because I thought it would be easier. The play is different, but I won't call it easier or harder. I will keep playing, because the Ladies Events are FUN!! I think they are just a great way to have a good time, and are definitely an important part in involving women in poker.

Everyone should be on board involving women in poker. Think about what an influx of new players would do for the game. The overall skill at the tables would go down, not because the players are women, but because the players are NEW.

As far as women being afraid to play live because of the fear of negative reactions, well, those are fears every new player has. There's no need to make it out to be a "poor girl" type reaction. I'm sure a guy sitting down at a poker table for the first time is just as nervous about screwing up and wanting to be respected as a player. If these players get good enough, they'll eventually learn that sometimes it's better to be viewed as a bad player.

Someone made the comment that they don't know of any women that play online. I feel that I've encountered more women that play online then I usually do when I play live. When you play online, you don't actually know who is a man or a woman.

In conclusion, Ladies Events should definitely be encouraged because it will draw new players into the game (and they are just plain fun). However, I just don't agree with trying to change phrasing or get men to "watch their language" at the table. I just don't care, and these are non-issues to me. The issues brought up about women in poker mostly annoy me. By giving it attention, it's automatically saying that women aren't capable of thriving in the current poker environment. Well, frankly, any woman that is too scared or intimidated can just stay out of the game. I don't have a tolerance for weak people, and this is just a card game. If you can't handle a poker game, how exactly are you making it though the rest of your life without getting pushed around?

P.S. Forgot to include that men that play in Ladies Event are just jerks. Do you want your wives/girlfriends intruding on guy time?? Let us have our girl time.
 
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