Michael Paler
Legend
Silver Level
I am amazed to discover poker players who actually think poker is simply "luck" based and that it is gambling. This is just not true. I like to use chess as an example, so lets see if I can drive a spike into the heart of this falsehood that it is simply "gambling."
Argument: you are "betting" for cash, therefore it is gambling.
You make physical moves in poker just like you do in chess, only you use your chips to do so, not chess pieces. So this is not simply “money” you are “gambling” for one main reason; there is not an overall unchangeable “wager” being made towards the outcome of the hand or the game. You can only do that outside of the game; “I bet xx dollars so-and-so wins this game.” While it seems you are doing exactly this, only in stages, during the hand by betting each of the times that you can, here is the difference; no set amount of any bet or wager towards the final outcome is ever always made. You are in a sense doing this when you go “all-in”, however, you do not have to. So, the ability to go all in or not makes it a type of “wager-move”. Or this can be avoided by placing a “ceiling” on the amount you can wager-move (ie; fixed/pot limit). Then you can only go all in if that is all you have left and it takes that much to wager move. You can wager-move more, you can wager-move less, you can wager-move nothing or you can even wager-move by folding! But it is a wager-move. Not a wager.
Thus there never is a set amount of any wager towards the outcome. A bet or wager of a set amount made on the overall outcome outside the game is gambling. You are betting on the outcome, thus gambling. You are not doing this while playing the game. You are making wager moves along the way and the amount can change at any time. For this reason, the chips have a value attached to them that may or may not match what you spend to get into the game. For example, you might be in a tournament where you pay to get in for, say $30.00, and you get $3,000.00 in chips to wager-move with. Or you can buy into a cash game for $300.00 and get $300.00 in chips to wager-move with. It just depends on what type of wager-move poker game it is; cash or tournament.
Argument: it is just "luck." Luck = gambling.
Look, everything you do in chess, using the odds of probability, knowing your opponent, what he might do in a certain situation, is all part of playing poker as well, only, even more so. While you use math and knowledge to speculate on what your opponent might do or what piece he might move and where, in poker you use math and knowledge to speculate on what cards he could be holding, what he may or may not do next, etc. This is not just "luck" then when you are successful.
You also use math, knowledge and combine it with what he does with his chips, how much he bets (wager-moves), when he bets, if he checks; all of that gives you information with which to act upon. This includes mathematically/logically figuring out what cards you/your opponent are holding plus what cards are out on the board and what you need in order to make a winning hand. You use pot odds and the odds of probability for getting the card that you need to make your winning hand if you do not yet have it and there are more cards yet to come. Math, odds, knowledge...it is all the same, only even more complex than chess, in some ways. So "luck" is a relative term used here. If you succeed after applying the odds of probability that is not just random luck as it was calculated. So even if you do throw your money in with no thought as to how or why and you win, those same odds can explain why you won. You are actually no more "lucky" when an ace hits and "saves" you than you are "lucky" when a chess player fails to move a pawn that prevents his knight from moving onto that square and then that fails to prevent your attack.
Luck in poker is not the same as luck in, say, picking a winning lotto number. Skill plays a far greater roll, whether you realize or not. Luck to win a game cannot reliably be reproduced at will. The skill certainly can.
So, when you hear people say this, set them straight.
Argument: you are "betting" for cash, therefore it is gambling.
You make physical moves in poker just like you do in chess, only you use your chips to do so, not chess pieces. So this is not simply “money” you are “gambling” for one main reason; there is not an overall unchangeable “wager” being made towards the outcome of the hand or the game. You can only do that outside of the game; “I bet xx dollars so-and-so wins this game.” While it seems you are doing exactly this, only in stages, during the hand by betting each of the times that you can, here is the difference; no set amount of any bet or wager towards the final outcome is ever always made. You are in a sense doing this when you go “all-in”, however, you do not have to. So, the ability to go all in or not makes it a type of “wager-move”. Or this can be avoided by placing a “ceiling” on the amount you can wager-move (ie; fixed/pot limit). Then you can only go all in if that is all you have left and it takes that much to wager move. You can wager-move more, you can wager-move less, you can wager-move nothing or you can even wager-move by folding! But it is a wager-move. Not a wager.
Thus there never is a set amount of any wager towards the outcome. A bet or wager of a set amount made on the overall outcome outside the game is gambling. You are betting on the outcome, thus gambling. You are not doing this while playing the game. You are making wager moves along the way and the amount can change at any time. For this reason, the chips have a value attached to them that may or may not match what you spend to get into the game. For example, you might be in a tournament where you pay to get in for, say $30.00, and you get $3,000.00 in chips to wager-move with. Or you can buy into a cash game for $300.00 and get $300.00 in chips to wager-move with. It just depends on what type of wager-move poker game it is; cash or tournament.
Argument: it is just "luck." Luck = gambling.
Look, everything you do in chess, using the odds of probability, knowing your opponent, what he might do in a certain situation, is all part of playing poker as well, only, even more so. While you use math and knowledge to speculate on what your opponent might do or what piece he might move and where, in poker you use math and knowledge to speculate on what cards he could be holding, what he may or may not do next, etc. This is not just "luck" then when you are successful.
You also use math, knowledge and combine it with what he does with his chips, how much he bets (wager-moves), when he bets, if he checks; all of that gives you information with which to act upon. This includes mathematically/logically figuring out what cards you/your opponent are holding plus what cards are out on the board and what you need in order to make a winning hand. You use pot odds and the odds of probability for getting the card that you need to make your winning hand if you do not yet have it and there are more cards yet to come. Math, odds, knowledge...it is all the same, only even more complex than chess, in some ways. So "luck" is a relative term used here. If you succeed after applying the odds of probability that is not just random luck as it was calculated. So even if you do throw your money in with no thought as to how or why and you win, those same odds can explain why you won. You are actually no more "lucky" when an ace hits and "saves" you than you are "lucky" when a chess player fails to move a pawn that prevents his knight from moving onto that square and then that fails to prevent your attack.
Luck in poker is not the same as luck in, say, picking a winning lotto number. Skill plays a far greater roll, whether you realize or not. Luck to win a game cannot reliably be reproduced at will. The skill certainly can.
So, when you hear people say this, set them straight.