What would YOU do?

The other day I was buying in at the poker room's cage, and when I walked away I noticed the clerk had given me $20 too much in chips. I'm not going to tell you what I did yet, but what would YOU have done?

Feel free to leave comments, too.

If good fortune smiles on you then you take what you can get. Giving back $20 in chips makes no sense at all.

ScottishMatt said:

If good fortune smiles on you then you take what you can get. Giving back $20 in chips makes no sense at all.

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Agree 100%

It's not like you are damaging the employee, because they all have for sure a kind of "insurance" (dont know the proper name, sorry) for those situations. And I'm not that pitty for the casinos

I would of gave the $20 back, since it could be taken out of the employees pay check!

I dont want to lie, but i wouldn't gave back them.

kidkvno1 said:

I would of gave the $20 back, since it could be taken out of the employees pay check!

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I don't think so... All the emloyees that deal with cash, say in banks, gas stations, etc, have an certain amount per month to deal with situations like this one - 20$ shorter in the final of the day.

Here's my answer from last week - playing in a live tourney I got moved to another table and there was 5 - $5 chips in my cup holder. I asked the guy next to me if they were his and he told me they belonged to the guy who got knocked out a few minutes prior (whom I did not see).
I KEPT THE CHIPS to finger shuffle and use as a card protector until I got knocked out hours later at the final table. I then took the chips to the poker desk, told them how I found them and they thanked me and said they knew exactly who they belonged to (as he called to alert them that he had left them behind).

I'll tell you what I'd tell my kids - if you know it does not belong to you AND you know who it does belong to and you keep it - it is stealing - whether you found it, had it mistakenly given to you or what ever.

You know for a fact its NOT yours AND you know for a fact who the rightful owner is AND think you have some sort of claim to it, considering "finders keepers" to be some sort of moral clause that makes it okay????!!!!!
OMFG - no wonder Joan Rivers hates poker players. I am shocked and dismayed at the comments and current results of the poll. I hope none of you in favor of keeping it EVER said a hypocritical word against Howard Lederer.

just do the right thing....20 isn't worth keeping ....I could see if its so much you can benefit from it

MediaBLITZ said:

Here's my answer from last week - playing in a live tourney I got moved to another table and there was 5 - $5 chips in my cup holder. I asked the guy next to me if they were his and he told me they belonged to the guy who got knocked out a few minutes prior (whom I did not see).
I KEPT THE CHIPS to finger shuffle and use as a card protector until I got knocked out hours later at the final table. I then took the chips to the poker desk, told them how I found them and they thanked me and said they knew exactly who they belonged to (as he called to alert them that he had left them behind).

I'll tell you what I'd tell my kids - if you know it does not belong to you AND you know who it does belong to and you keep it - it is stealing - whether you found it, had it mistakenly given to you or what ever.

You know for a fact its NOT yours AND you know for a fact who the rightful owner is AND think you have some sort of claim to it, considering "finders keepers" to be some sort of moral clause that makes it okay????!!!!!
OMFG - no wonder Joan Rivers hates poker players. I am shocked and dismayed at the comments and current results of the poll. I hope none of you in favor of keeping it EVER said a hypocritical word against Howard Lederer.

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We take edge where we can get it. If someone else's mistake happen to benefit me then I won't correct it. Stealing would require it to be an act. This isn't an act, it is a non-act.

This situation is completely passive, whereby we don't take any action. Yet you claim it to be stealing, how come?

How do you come to the conclusion that not doing something = doing something . . .

As for Howard Lederer, well that situation was active and intended, therefore completely different.

Edit -----

Concerning your point about who has the claim to what. OP doesn't have any claim to it. Neither should he think he does. At the same time though the cage has given up their claim to it. This is a situation where you find yourself in possession of an item where no one has any right to it.

@JCDA ^ It's not about the material gain that can be had in this scenario. $20 is the exact same as $20,000. It dropped onto your lap and denying good fortune would be a mistake in either case.

i think your better off doing the right thing, not much u could do with 20 now a days, lol

valkopt said:

Agree 100%

It's not like you are damaging the employee, because they all have for sure a kind of "insurance" (dont know the proper name, sorry) for those situations. And I'm not that pitty for the casinos

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I agree, I don't pitty any casinos, they have most of the money in the world anyway, they will get it back from me anyway.

If you are truly thinking of the employee, then you should give the $20 back.
When cashiers are handling other's money, they are responsible for said money.
If at the end of the day, their drawer comes up short, they are responsible for the
shortage. That's not saying they will have to make good on the $, but, their job is
definitely on the line.
Usually a shortage will result in disciplinary action. This could result in
termination.
That being said, I would probably keep the $20, as I am that shallow an individual!

valkopt said:

Agree 100%

It's not like you are damaging the employee, because they all have for sure a kind of "insurance" (dont know the proper name, sorry) for those situations. And I'm not that pitty for the casinos

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I assume if they short you,the same rule would apply, cause, of course, it ain't just about you gettin over on someone/something.

I think I'll take them

I use to work in a poker cage. All casinos have the same policy to combat employee theft. If our banks were short we had to pay it back to the casino. There is no special account to take care of these situations. Most of the people have families. If they overpay you give it back, please! If they underpay you they can check the video and give you back what you are owed.

Not only are the cashiers responsible for the money, they run the chips to and from the main cage, they get the money for bad beats and bonuses, and do a TON of paperwork for all of those things. So when you cash out a winner or hit a bad beat tip your cashier because they do a lot of work getting you that money.

I would take them,but its bad for karma.

Kenzie 96 said:

I assume if they short you,the same rule would apply, cause, of course, it ain't just about you gettin over on someone/something.

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And it never happened to you? You go somewhere and they give you short on the change? It happened to me a few times, all across Europe, and rarely they admit it.

Look, I'm just as good or as bad as anyone else. In that specific case, I'll took the 20$.

Said to hear from nomadnative, for his experience, that "If our banks were short we had to pay it back to the casino. There is no special account to take care of these situations."

This just shows how much casinos are interested in their employees. I've worked in a lot of places, never stoled, but I committed mistakes, as any human being, but never was asked to put the money in.

The casino definitely will not miss $20 with the money they pull in, if circumstances were different I might feel a little guilty but the casino are the biggest crooks so I wouldn't feel bad about it

ScottishMatt said:

We take edge where we can get it. If someone else's mistake happen to benefit me then I won't correct it. Stealing would require it to be an act. This isn't an act, it is a non-act.

This situation is completely passive, whereby we don't take any action. Yet you claim it to be stealing, how come?

Because it is purely active - anything that requires a decision is active - the only way this is passive is by not knowing it happened.

How do you come to the conclusion that not doing something = doing something . . .

Because a decision was made and making a decision is active.

As for Howard Lederer, well that situation was active and intended, therefore completely different.

Okay, lets not derail - I don't believe for a second it was Howard's intent, but I will also recognize that some (most) won't believe that. But that's part of the psychology of people who get ripped off - its always ACTIVE.

Edit -----

Concerning your point about who has the claim to what. OP doesn't have any claim to it. Neither should he think he does. At the same time though the cage has given up their claim to it. This is a situation where you find yourself in possession of an item where no one has any right to it.

The cage/employee did not make any decision to waive claim to it - if you go to a restaurant, have a meal, get up and leave your wallet or cell phone on the table does that mean you have waived claim to it? If you go back and try to retrieve it an hour later and it is gone and no one knows anything about it - do you tell your friends/credit card company it was stolen or that you waived your claim to it?

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xxx

I would have given it back. When the clerk finishes his/her shift, the money is counted and if there's anything missing, that amount is taken from his/her payment at the end of the month.

Give it back. How can you trust apoker player who retained this money. Poker in the finally form is a game of trust.

"It depends"

Depends on how you choose to view yourself at your core. Personally I would give it back. (years ago when younger, I would've kept it)

MediaBLITZ

We obviously perceive things differently. I think that by choosing not to "act" we aren't actually taking action. Perhaps I'm wrong. If you could specify further that would be great. Lets say you chose to murder someone but you failed, by your own logic you are therefore a murderer even though you didn't murder anyone, is that correct?

In essence your position is that by being passive you are in fact, being active?

You know the only time I've heard a similar argument is when religious folks claim that atheism is a religion . . .

As for your last section. It would be incorrect to say it was stolen as you have no evidence to suggest that it was (what you really have is a lack of evidence, and basing any claim on a lack of evidence is a mistake). You would be responsible for the loss of it, and therefore you can't justifiably claim any injustice was done to you.

Lets get back on track though and actually compare these situations. In the first example, something was given to you. Regardless of any other factors, you were given something during an official transaction. It doesn't matter whether you deserve it, or whether the transaction's intent was for you to receive it. It is now in your possession and through no fault of your own.

In the second situation, lets assume someone had actually "taken" the phone (we'll use phone in this example). I feel the difference here is paramount, not to mention blatantly obvious to anyone who has the capability to discern the not-so-fine line. Taking something is an "act". If someone decides to do something, and then proceeds to do so. They are then guilty of whatever the act was - in this case stealing.


I'm not the most eloquent of debaters and I'm far from good at it so perhaps I'm not the person to get this point across to you. I really don't know how to defend my side of the debate against someone who uses the argument that not doing something is doing something

Honestly, I would just give it back. Back when I was a college student, I would've kept it but after working as a waiter at a sushi restaurant and also working with the cashier too, it sucks to get scorn or criticized by my boss over it. Sure, it's their mistake and you're not obligated to give it back but for me, I do believe in karma of what goes around comes around.

I wouldn't feel right taking it, so I would give it back. this could potentially affect their job. I hit the wrong button fwiw.