This is what we're up against.

This guy from IA spewing nonsense about "overseas" online poker sites not being secure. This is how he approaches trying to gain votes FOR online poker being legal in IA. This makes it sound like they have no clue what they are trying to do.

See 1:34
http://www.wqad.com/news/wqad-iowa-online-poker-030211,0,2855882.story

I'm a person who has never had any bad experiences with a poker site as far as security or customer service. I also believe most sites have the security of the game as a top priority.

These states should be touting the success of the mainstream sites. Using them as business models to learn the correct way to run such a business.

"You really don't know who you're playing with and you don't know whether you have an honest game and there's nobody to complain to if there's something wrong. You're just out." -Registered Lobbyist and Former Iowa Legislator from 1979-1981

Sounds like he's been tilted once or twice, and like any noob, resorts to the 'it's rigged' idea.

TorreyB said:

"You really don't know who you're playing with and you don't know whether you have an honest game and there's nobody to complain to if there's something wrong. You're just out." -Registered Lobbyist and Former Iowa Legislator from 1979-1981

Sounds like he's been tilted once or twice, and like any noob, resorts to the 'it's rigged' idea.

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Imo he isnt totally wrong w that statement. There have been enough bot rings and collusion issues to prove that statement true. Every online card room states that your monies can be taken at anytime, with or without giving you a reason.

Once you make a deposit that money in reality is no longer yours. It is the rooms, and it is up to them to give it back to you. Now the point he is trying to make, is that a legal and state regulated online gaming operation, not only will make revenue for the states and local govt. But will also protect the players involved. Giving them certain assurances and what not. I am in no way saying that a regulated site would be free of cheating etc..

But it would in no way be a fly by night operation, that could just keep and take your money you deposited or won. Without a solid reason. You would have more protection. There are great sites out there now, that really goes without saying, but their have been some very shady sites in the past as well. And here in the U.S. we as players are always looking for the sites that make access easy, while giving our games the biggest edge as possible. A legal and govt regulated site would accomplish the ease and give us more protection.

@vtonne
I agree a regulated game that insures our $ is protected would be great. The problem is that IA's bill states that the sites services would be available to IA residents exclusively. Low Low traffic means poor game selection.

The entire thing bothers me b/c the point of online poker (for me) is to be able to play with anybody at anytime and to have a large field to play against. We seem to be getting away from that. The rest of the world is gonna be playing vs. the rest of the world minus the U.S. While the U.S. players are stuck playing the same players in their home state. The product just doesn't seem to be as good imo. I'm rambling now.

tusabes said:

@vtonne
I agree a regulated game that insures our $ is protected would be great. The problem is that IA's bill states that the sites services would be available to IA residents exclusively. Low Low traffic means poor game selection.

The entire thing bothers me b/c the point of online poker (for me) is to be able to play with anybody at anytime and to have a large field to play against. We seem to be getting away from that. The rest of the world is gonna be playing vs. the rest of the world minus the U.S. While the U.S. players are stuck playing the same players in their home state. The product just doesn't seem to be as good imo. I'm rambling now.

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I agree with this. And I too dont like the idea of state only sites. But it is baby steps. I have to wonder if there were legal and regulated access to online sites, would the number of players increase? Idk I can imagine their are ppl out there that dont play online bc of worries such as, idk who i am playing against? Is my money going to be safe? Am I being cheated?..And those that dont want to break the law...or even toe along that line.

I have often wondered if a major site such as pokerstars or full tilt could operate as they do now in a fully legal and regulated operation as the govt will insist. Not saying that they operate in anything less then a professional manor. But a legal online poker industry in the US will tax not only the card rooms but the players winnings as well.

And like it or not, the govt cant tax players who arent from the US and i cant imagine the poker rooms wanting to play taxes on profits from players around the world. Just doesnt make sense to me. I wouldnt do it lol

I imagine US only sites ran by MGM, Harrahs etc. down the road. And my hope is that state only sites will get the snowball rolling, and help iron out the details to fully legal and regulated online poker in the US and make this whole situation go away and playing poker much easier.

Suggesting that because something is overseas it can't be trusted is possibly indicative of the type of attitude which makes the US so popular worldwide.

vtonne said:

I agree with this. And I too dont like the idea of state only sites. But it is baby steps. I have to wonder if there were legal and regulated access to online sites, would the number of players increase? Idk I can imagine their are ppl out there that dont play online bc of worries such as, idk who i am playing against? Is my money going to be safe? Am I being cheated?..And those that dont want to break the law...or even toe along that line.

I have often wondered if a major site such as pokerstars or full tilt could operate as they do now in a fully legal and regulated operation as the govt will insist. Not saying that they operate in anything less then a professional manor. But a legal online poker industry in the US will tax not only the card rooms but the players winnings as well.

And like it or not, the govt cant tax players who arent from the US and i cant imagine the poker rooms wanting to play taxes on profits from players around the world. Just doesnt make sense to me. I wouldnt do it lol

I imagine US only sites ran by MGM, Harrahs etc. down the road. And my hope is that state only sites will get the snowball rolling, and help iron out the details to fully legal and regulated online poker in the US and make this whole situation go away and playing poker much easier.

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People who travel to other countries take money with them (or cards whatever) to pay for expenses, have fun, and buy things. Some things are cheaper than in the US, often due to import taxes and so on, so if you bring these items back, you pay tax or duty on them. And if you played in a foreign casino, and brought more than (I am not sure of the limit, maybe more or less??) $10,000 you would either need to smuggle it and pay the price if caught, or just declare it and pay your tax.

This business model makes sense and is standard. Online poker should be the same way. You cannot demand that germany will no longer be able to sell German porcelain to Americans unless they set up a shop in the US and sell it only to residents of the state the shop is in.

A transparent deposit and withdrawal method would be a way for Government to oversee how much money is being WON (!) and tax these winning appropriately. If someone takes their hard earned money and takes it overseas and blows it, its their decision - as long as they dont take over a certain amount, this I am pretty sure is $10,000. SO if you lose your 10,000, its your business. If you make money and there is a standard way to regulate online poker, than you pay your taxes on your WINNINGS, and the government is happy.

The main point is the money flowing to the rooms that is not WINNINGS. The Gov. wants their cut here as well. But a regulated system that keeps players playing their neighbors will be a lose/lose situation for all, as not many will be depositing in this situation, and then no one is winning any substantial amount.

If you have already paid your taxes on that deposit, then the Gov. has gotten their cut. The room is an overseas business like any other. There is enough winning going on that a transparent avenue to control this would be the best option for all involved. Gov. gets taxes from the pros, rooms remain open to all, and as a result, more pros and semi pros making more money being taxed. An attractive tax benefit program to rooms that open and pay taxes on US soil could - lol maybe - eventually be an option, although now that I said that , it does sound ridiculously improbable.....

But working out a plan to separate the pros from the recreational players,and setting tax and earning limits would be something worth looking at, but, hey, I guess thats just the dreamer in me talking............

Swear Engine said:

Suggesting that because something is overseas it can't be trusted is possibly indicative of the type of attitude which makes the US so popular worldwide.

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^^^^^^ lots of truth there...

Swear Engine said:

Suggesting that because something is overseas it can't be trusted is possibly indicative of the type of attitude which makes the US so popular worldwide.

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True. There are several sites which belong to reputable companies based in the United Kingdom (eg. Virgin, Victor Chandler, Gala, william hill) and which are 100% safe and secure. None of them will accept transactions with American players because of UIGEA and precisely because they are scrupulous about observing all relevant laws.

All that would be needed would be the stroke of a pen by American lawmakers to allow these sites to accept American players. Americans could then have access to regulated sites overnight.

It won`t happen, of course, because that is far too simple and puts no taxes into the pockets of American politicians.

tusabes said:

@vtonne
I agree a regulated game that insures our $ is protected would be great. The problem is that IA's bill states that the sites services would be available to IA residents exclusively. Low Low traffic means poor game selection.

The entire thing bothers me b/c the point of online poker (for me) is to be able to play with anybody at anytime and to have a large field to play against. We seem to be getting away from that. The rest of the world is gonna be playing vs. the rest of the world minus the U.S. While the U.S. players are stuck playing the same players in their home state. The product just doesn't seem to be as good imo. I'm rambling now.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately with the current political climate its going to be hard to get what you are looking for.

The current status can't be maintained more than 6-12 months IMO. What we going to do then?

vtonne said:

Imo he isnt totally wrong w that statement. There have been enough bot rings and collusion issues to prove that statement true. Every online card room states that your monies can be taken at anytime, with or without giving you a reason.

Once you make a deposit that money in reality is no longer yours. It is the rooms, and it is up to them to give it back to you. Now the point he is trying to make, is that a legal and state regulated online gaming operation, not only will make revenue for the states and local govt. But will also protect the players involved. Giving them certain assurances and what not. I am in no way saying that a regulated site would be free of cheating etc..

But it would in no way be a fly by night operation, that could just keep and take your money you deposited or won. Without a solid reason. You would have more protection. There are great sites out there now, that really goes without saying, but their have been some very shady sites in the past as well. And here in the U.S. we as players are always looking for the sites that make access easy, while giving our games the biggest edge as possible. A legal and govt regulated site would accomplish the ease and give us more protection.

Click to expand...

I AGREE%100 may as well regulate the games i disagree with some of the things that were said but not all.I actually think regulation is the key to what we want speaking as a us player of course.

TorreyB said:

"You really don't know who you're playing with and you don't know whether you have an honest game and there's nobody to complain to if there's something wrong. You're just out." -Registered Lobbyist and Former Iowa Legislator from 1979-1981

Sounds like he's been tilted once or twice, and like any noob, resorts to the 'it's rigged' idea.

Click to expand...

I'd love to disagree, but try as I might, I can't find any fault whatsoever with that statement.

Let's not forget, there exist now multiple, public instances where online poker at select sites *has* proven to be "rigged" in one form or another. Doesn't make it so everywhere, but that does not invalidate his claim.

fletchdad said:

But working out a plan to separate the pros from the recreational players,and setting tax and earning limits would be something worth looking at, but, hey, I guess thats just the dreamer in me talking............

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That is already covered in the current tax code, altho it sucks. Pros can declare their winnings and deduct their loses, but if you are not a pro you are suppose to pay tax on your winnings but can't deduct your losses.

As far as regulation, it is needed, unfortunately the government will screw this up like the screw up everything else. A number of sites have gone belly-up or just closed, keeping the players money.

What I would like to see is a simple system of possibly a SMALL deposit fee (to satisfy the greedy) and a % fee (10%?) on w/d in lieu of taxes. That basically eliminates all the paperwork of tracking wins vs losses, tax forms, leaves the money in the account for use, etc. If the government ran or licensed a payment processor, that would eliminate all the hassle we now face with deposits and w/d.

I have never had a problem with an overseas site. I do have prblems with the Irs not knowing the rules on gaming taxes.