What we never talk about

Why do good poker players lose more than they win? I have pondered this question. When I used to play in a private tourney on stars with a group of players that numbered top pros like Matt Mattros and Peter Feldman I was one of the most feared players at the table. Why then do those guys win 6 figures a year and I am still broke? This is simple. I cannot accept losses. If I have a losing session I cannot accept it and I go back to quickly and try to recoup. I put too much pressure on myself to win it back and end up losing it all. In this game I must come to the realization that I will lose sometimes. Sometimes I will lose alot before I win again. That is just the cards. It is the nature of the game. Even Doyle has had bad runs. It just happens. Are you like me.....sound off.:banghead:

fishfood said:

Are you like me.....sound off.:banghead:

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Yes, that's pretty much me to a T, minus the game vs. Mattros and Feldman (although I have a friend who met Feldman).

After I went bust a few weeks ago, I decided to take some time off from my online game (other than an occasional freeroll). I still play my weekly home game and I've had a win and a bubble since then.

I plan on playing some USPC prelims and possibly a WCOOP event in September. We'll see then how the time off helped or hindered.

fishfood said:

Why do good poker players lose more than they win?

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I disagree with this statement. In the long run, good players make more than they lose. Avg players break even, give or take a bit, and bad players lose. In the short term you might lost a lot more during a bad streak, but poker is not about single sessions or five games or even three months.

I'm not feared anywhere lol, but I like your post.Its like the post about putting your chips in at the river when you know you are beat, if I could just drum all these juicy tidbits into my head I might one day be a half ass decent player.

have to agree with JD on this one , I don't think they would be good players if they lost more than they won , otherwise we're all good players except the the few donks we have here that keep on winning.

I do have to fight myself to keep from trying to soon to get my money back,cause when I do I usually lose even more. weather we realize it or not , we are on tilt after losing our buy in.

also have to fight myself not to go on to higher limits after a good win. I say, just keep on grinding jay ,you're not good , you just got lucky.


I am feared at any live table , but thats cause I look so scary,

The pros do go broke every now and then though - I read an interview with John Juanda a month back, apparently he's the only one from the group of players he started out with (Daniel Negranu, Allen Cunningham, etc) that hasn't gone broke at least once since they started out.

The question is though, do they go broke playing poker, or playing golf?

While it is true that eveb good players lose a lot, they will come out ahead in the long run. In much the same way as the best hitters in the history of baseball fail more than 65 chances out of every 100. poker plaayers, even the best ever, lose a lot.

But, the wins will, hopefully, more than cover the losses, just as 33 hits our if every 100 earns baseball immortality.

Jack Daniels said:

I disagree with this statement. In the long run, good players make more than they lose. Avg players break even, give or take a bit, and bad players lose. In the short term you might lost a lot more during a bad streak, but poker is not about single sessions or five games or even three months.

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he's talking about good players who lose because they compulsively tilt. whether or not your definition of a "good" player can include someone with tilt problems is up to you. some would say that tilt control is a major part of being good at the game, and thus a player with considerable tilt issues shouldn't be considered "good" (I think Irexes brought this to light in a very good thread he wrote within the past few weeks)

The question is though, do they go broke playing poker, or playing golf?

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Golf and stupid prop bets. Go to Greenstein's site and check out the stupid stuff Ted Forrest's has bet on. You can find them in the player's profile. Some are quite funny (Lederer losing weight is hilarious), some are just plain idiotic (benching 225lbs 50 times in 48 hours? Have you looked at Ted recently????).

Brunson has admitted himself that he is a pro-gambler, not a pro-poker player in SS2 and thta he would be a far welathier man if he didn't bet on any and every contest that ever existed. If Bill Chen decided to run nude in the streets of Las Vegas, Doyle probably would put on under/over on him getting arrested. And he would get 300k of action from other pros...

I am the world's worst.I lose a buy in in a tourn. and immediately pick up anotherto recoup losses.Then another,then another.It is stupid and I know it,but do it anyway.If I could ever learn to walk away I would be a successful player.I also play a lot after I make $ in a trourn. too.It's sad!!!

Thats the problem with most players, they don't know when to stop. They take a losing session into a bankroll losing session. Everyone needs to find a way to stop themselves, but unfortunataly most people just keep playing until there out of money.

Good luck at your tables

A big part of "good" players not winning is BR management. They want to play at the higher stakes tables, but they just don't have the money to invest into it. When those players lose $10,000 what do they do? They put another $10k on their to keep playing.

This is a very brief, inaccurate explanation but I definitely think about 90%+ that's why.

phil ivey won $7 mil this year in tourney wins

Monoxide said:

phil ivey won $7 mil this year in tourney wins

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Really? I don't recall him getting any major cashes at the wsop, and he still hasn't won a WPT event either - there's not a lot of really big stakes tournaments left after you take them out

Clearing $7 million in cash games I'd believe though

Many winning pros have the discipline to realize that Poker is just one long session..When Negreanu lost that huge pot against Hansen with Quads versus a full boat on HSP it just showed why he is a winning player.. Yeah, of course it hurt but he didn't go on insane monkey tilt to try to win it all back in a hurry.. He knows that as long as he continues to play the same way that has brought him success in the past he will get it back and then some.

It hasn't been that well documented around here at least, but I suffered from this severe tilting problem in the past.. I blew through 3 deposits in just over a month because I failed to realize that downswings happen all the time.. Instead of logging off when I lost a few S&G's I moved up a level to win it back right away..That in itself just compounds the problem..When you do that kind of thing you are just playing with scared money; it's really difficult to succeed..

Now if I fail to cash in 4 consective S&G's ( I play two at a time usually) I just step away from the computer and go do something else..I give myself some time to rethink how I played and attempt to rectify or correct any errors I may have made that caused me to be unsuccessful.. Playing with a clear head is of the utmost importance in my opinion..