What is the opposite of grinding?

#1 12th November 2013, 10:17 PM

Everyone always talks about grinding, but what defines a grinder? What would you call someone who doesn't grind? Is a grinder someone who does poker as a living and is everyone else just "playing for fun."

#2 12th November 2013, 10:32 PM

The opposite of grinding would be "not playing at all" LOL.

I would say the term "grinder" generally means someone who plays more than casual volume, usually multitabling, with an eye towards steady income. Doesn't have to mean they play for a living (that's a "pro"), in fact a lot of grinders don't play poker for their sole income. But it's distinct from the casual 1 or 2 table players that play 1000 hands a week at most "just for fun."

#3 13th November 2013, 5:04 PM

Have you heard the expression "the daily grind"?

It usually refers to your full time job. It is what you do each day every day, with time off for good behaviour, of course.

The same applies to a 'grinder' in poker. Do it pretty much every day and treat it almost like a second job. Have some sort of 'work ethic' and not just dip in and out a couple of times a week.

Although I agree that most grinders would multi-table I do not think that is necessary in order to be called a grinder. Someone who plays a particular MTT every day for 5-6 hours could equally be a 'grinder' IMNSHO, provided they did so with the intention of winning, or trying to.

The opposite, apart from not playing at all, would be a recreational player. A recreational player might play in the same MTT as above but only a couple of times a week and doesn't really mind if they don't get ITM, they are just passing the time or maybe hoping to get to meet a buddy or two for some banter.

#4 13th November 2013, 5:58 PM

i will give you a visual. barry greenstien grinder- plays tight enough that he can bluff on occasion and make a daily profit. the opposite of- kid poker - plays a bunch to make a bunch

#5 13th November 2013, 8:30 PM

Matt Damon in Rounders...Taking big shots with a huge portion of your bankroll

#6 13th November 2013, 9:48 PM

I would say online grinding is working towards an hourly target rate over multi tables, with guidelines and procedures put in place to control how you play poker.
you should solely make the best decisions and stick to limits.

The opposite of grinding would be reacreationally playing, depositng $60 per time and jumping in at a 100NL table
or playing a few nights a week in tournaments with one or 2 buy ins attempting to win money

#7 13th November 2013, 9:53 PM

cotta777 gives a good description, I think.

#8 13th November 2013, 10:15 PM

Definition of grinder is a good players with very high (sometimes exaggerated) volume imo, so the opposite to real grinders are those guys who have a potential to be winning players, but are too lazy or whatever to give poker enough of their time.

#9 13th November 2013, 11:42 PM

In my opinion grinders are people like micro stake players that will not move up in stakes because they like the small steady for sure income they have, they would rather grind those small tables 10 hours a day instead of playing higher stakes for a few hours every now and then.

#10 13th November 2013, 11:54 PM

If you made it to the final table in WSOP you've sure as hell grinder'd your way there. 2012 WSOP final 2 was the biggest grind I've EVER witnessed.

#11 14th November 2013, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Vorban

Matt Damon in Rounders...Taking big shots with a huge portion of your bankroll

Eh, I'd say that he is the working opposite of a grinder in that sense. A grinder would be someone more like Joey Knish. Plays relatively small stakes for massive volume to "grind out" a living.

#12 14th November 2013, 12:10 AM

personally instead of playing poker i play COD and Starcraft lol so that would be the opposite of what i do in my free time

#13 14th November 2013, 12:24 AM

I envision a grinder as someone who sits and multitables cash games for a living online. Course theres the "live grinder" who typically is that twenty something year old that sits at the casino's poker room 6-12 hours a day and just waits for an edge. I'm certainly the opposite...to grind these days online you need to be proficient in the poker tracking software that's out there and know how to analyze your game with these types of tools to improve and spot leaks. I just play for fun, if we ever get STARS/TILT back in the states I might consider playing seriously again.

#14 15th November 2013, 5:00 AM

To me a grinder is a poker player that can tough out a game when the cards aren't falling by using their poker skills & making it into a cash out whether it be 1st place or just breaking the bubble.Someone who is dedicated to the game & respects it.Someone who can adjust their game if needed to.Someone who has a game plan.Most important it's someone who never gives up.

The opposite of grinding I think would be.Someone who never has a plan.Someone who gives up.Someone who never makes a nice bank roll.Someone who just plays for fun.Someone who would only play premium hands.

#15 15th November 2013, 5:49 AM

The opposite of grinding; playing recreationally or shot taking

#16 16th November 2013, 8:57 AM

I would say grinding was like working methodically and so the opposite is just playing around for occasional fun.

but playing has different contextual meanings.
Loafes I think hit on the better opposite term 'Recreational'.
You'll often hear the phrases Grinders and Recreational players.

but again some professionals (couldn't be called recreational) but don't grind methodically, they might be tournament players, sponsored players or just professional gamblers.

#17 16th November 2013, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Chemist

I would say grinding was like working methodically and so the opposite is just playing around for occasional fun.

but playing has different contextual meanings.
Loafes I think hit on the better opposite term 'Recreational'.
You'll often hear the phrases Grinders and Recreational players.

but again some professionals (couldn't be called recreational) but don't grind methodically, they might be tournament players, sponsored players or just professional gamblers.

What about 'recreational grinders'?

#18 16th November 2013, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by fido23

Everyone always talks about grinding, but what defines a grinder? What would you call someone who doesn't grind? Is a grinder someone who does poker as a living and is everyone else just "playing for fun."

I never liked this word "grinding" since I play poker for both fun and money. I like playing poker. I played it when I was a child for victory, now I play it as an adult for victory and money.
I think "grinders" are ppl who play this game only for money and doesnt care about the fun part of the game. They consider poker as a job. They are more like mathematic machines. Multitabling on monitors and playing their strategy, trying to get the best mathematical chance to win a pot. No problem with that anyway.

#19 16th November 2013, 10:45 PM

A grinder is an extremely solid player with a lot of experience who plays fundamentally sound poker and finds small edges that enables them to exploit their opponents. They are focused on consistency and profitability. I feel like the term grinder should be reserved for only consistent winners, and being a true grinder means you've proven you can make it in the world of poker. A lot of people will call themselves grinders, but the grinders who actually meet the criteria I just pointed out are definitely the ones that you can learn the most from.
There is a distinction between grinder and gambler
Gamblers have no BRM, tilt easily, take shots at higher stakes, jam it for 300% of the pot 90bb deep with the 2nd nut flush draw just because deep down inside they want to get called and hit the draw.
I think to an outsider a "grinder" would be anyone who plays cards, but to me that just isn't the case.

#20 17th November 2013, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by fido23

Everyone always talks about grinding, but what defines a grinder? What would you call someone who doesn't grind? Is a grinder someone who does poker as a living and is everyone else just "playing for fun."

I think it is creative player or thinking player

see the 1st chapter of poker blue print.

the thinking player is a kind of player who is trying to upgrade for his or her limit and try to keep on improving!

#21 19th November 2013, 5:28 AM

Originally Posted by Emperor IX

Eh, I'd say that he is the working opposite of a grinder in that sense. A grinder would be someone more like Joey Knish. Plays relatively small stakes for massive volume to "grind out" a living.

Agreed on Knish. Mike McDermott was "a true grinder" until he took a shot with his bankroll and lost a lot more than just the money.

In the commentary, Chris Ferguson gives an opinion of why he believes Knish is the real hero of the movie, and I tend to agree. This clip sums it up, including the part about saying no to a friend as a form of tough love:

Knish

What is the opposite of grinding?

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