What i find the funniest of all

Styrofoam · Feb 26, 2006

Me: LOL! you chased a gut shot getting 4:1 odds on your money. Please, keep doing that for me.

him: LOL! you fish. This is limit. I can chase gutshots all the time. Its a different game than no limit. You can chase any draws because it only costs 1 dollar."

Me: okay.

Anyone else find it ammusing that the most common excuse for poor play is "well, its just limit poker!!!"

Styrofoam · Feb 26, 2006

And not even 20 minutes later...me and this guy end up in a pot together...and this happens

Full Tilt Poker Game #464000102: Table Bradley - $0.50/$1 - Limit Hold'em - 4:32:26 ET - 2006/02/26
Seat 1: esoterra ($22.25)
Seat 2: Mr_Mojo ($45.25)
Seat 3: Simos1 ($13)
Seat 4: Styrofoam02 ($38.25)
Seat 5: PanzerRob ($57)
Seat 6: lothario420 ($7.25)
Seat 7: mayorpioneer ($34.25)
Seat 8: nashtech ($5.50)
Seat 9: Bruceski37 ($21)
nashtech posts the small blind of $0.25
Bruceski37 posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Styrofoam02 [As Ad]
esoterra folds
Mr_Mojo folds
Simos1 raises to $1
Styrofoam02 raises to $1.50
PanzerRob folds
lothario420 folds
mayorpioneer folds
nashtech calls $1.25
Bruceski37 folds
Simos1 raises to $2
Styrofoam02 calls $0.50
nashtech calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [8c 2s 9h]
nashtech checks
Simos1 bets $0.50
Styrofoam02 raises to $1
nashtech calls $1
Simos1 calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [8c 2s 9h] K♠
nashtech checks
Simos1 bets $1
Styrofoam02 raises to $2
nashtech folds
Simos1 raises to $3
Styrofoam02 raises to $4
Simos1 calls $1
*** RIVER *** [8c 2s 9h Ks] 8♥
Simos1 bets $1
Styrofoam02 raises to $2
Simos1 raises to $3
Styrofoam02 raises to $4
Simos1 calls $1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Styrofoam02 shows [As Ad] (two pair, Aces and Eights)
Simos1 mucks
Styrofoam02 wins the pot ($24.50) with two pair, Aces and Eights
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $25.50 | Rake $1
Board: [8c 2s 9h Ks 8h]
Seat 1: esoterra didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Mr_Mojo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Simos1 mucked [Ac Kd] - two pair, Kings and Eights
Seat 4: Styrofoam02 showed [As Ad] and won ($24.50) with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 5: PanzerRob didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: lothario420 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: mayorpioneer (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: nashtech (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 9: Bruceski37 (big blind) folded before the Flop

Tammy · Feb 26, 2006

Ah, sweet justice. Did you make sure to point out how much his donk play cost him that time? Or did you sit in smug silence?

ChuckTs · Feb 26, 2006

nah dont say anything!
flag this guy and encourage his play!
nice job punishing him, styrofoam

Styrofoam · Feb 26, 2006

juiceeQ said:
Ah, sweet justice. Did you make sure to point out how much his donk play cost him that time? Or did you sit in smug silence?

i just said "lol" and kept playing

smd173 · Feb 26, 2006

Styrofoam said:
him: LOL! you fish. This is limit. I can chase gutshots all the time. Its a different game than no limit. You can chase any draws because it only costs 1 dollar."

While I don't advocate chasing gutshots in limit because it is only $1, there are a few interesting points here.

First, limit is a different game than no limit. And secondly, you can't expect decent play in a .50/$1 limit game. The higher up the limits you move the less chasers you'll encounter and more solid play. But even at $2/$4, $3/$6, or even $5/$10 there will still be someone who either doesn't care or just wants to gamble. And there isn't much you can do about that, except to play smart, play your game, and punish them when you can.

Styrofoam · Feb 26, 2006

Oh trust me, i know. I just think its funny that the biggest excuse for poor play is "its only a dollar" or "Limit is a different game all together" and while its true that limit IS a different game all together - its thinking like this that makes this guy, and so many others like him consistant losers.

Netsurfer_88 · Feb 26, 2006

I think the same goes for the NL Re-buy tourney tables too, most of the low buyin players feel that to go all-in often is OK, whether they have a hand or not, since it only costs a dollar or five dollars to rebuy.

I find that very frustrating myself, since it feels like I lose all my blinds to these people since unless I have something I feel is worthy, I dont call.

Net

osirisdean · Feb 27, 2006

that fish, whether he realizes it or not, *does* have a point. yes, he may be getting 4:1 odds by chasing after the flop, but the *implied* odds being offered, should he hit the straight or flush, may be better. if he is getting 4:1 odds to see the turn/river and he hits his straight or flush, he may count the bet you will call (or make into him) in the implied odds. and since it is limit, he knows the exact amount of the bet he will have to call on the turn, and it will be small enough in relation to the pot (and what he will have to put in for a call) that it will very likely offer correct pot odds.

the moral: don't assume that the *current* pot size is the only thing that dictates "correct" play in limit holdem.

and, as mentioned before, you were playing a $1 limit game. expect a lot of chasing. therefore, big hands (ie, large pocket pairs) decrease in value a bit, and chasing hands (AK, suited connectors, low pairs to hit trips) increase in value a little.

Styrofoam · Feb 27, 2006

osirisdean said:
that fish, whether he realizes it or not, *does* have a point. yes, he may be getting 4:1 odds by chasing after the flop, but the *implied* odds being offered, should he hit the straight or flush, may be better. if he is getting 4:1 odds to see the turn/river and he hits his straight or flush, he may count the bet you will call (or make into him) in the implied odds. and since it is limit, he knows the exact amount of the bet he will have to call on the turn, and it will be small enough in relation to the pot (and what he will have to put in for a call) that it will very likely offer correct pot odds.

the moral: don't assume that the *current* pot size is the only thing that dictates "correct" play in limit holdem.

and, as mentioned before, you were playing a $1 limit game. expect a lot of chasing. therefore, big hands (ie, large pocket pairs) decrease in value a bit, and chasing hands (AK, suited connectors, low pairs to hit trips) increase in value a little.

when you're getting 4:1 for a gutshot straight (about 10.5:1 to make) the implied odds STILL don't justify chasing. You won't get that many bets esepecially when you're heads up

robwhufc · Feb 27, 2006

Implied odds apply to No Limit not Limit. There is a maximum amount you can win from Limit which barely deviates from the actual odds. Limit is a chasing game, but Styro is right - you wont get odds to chase gutshot straight - open ended straight and flush draw with 3 opponents in pot? Yes.

osirisdean · Feb 27, 2006

Styrofoam said:
when you're getting 4:1 for a gutshot straight (about 10.5:1 to make) the implied odds STILL don't justify chasing. You won't get that many bets esepecially when you're heads up

oops, i missed the "gutshot" bit, just remembered chasing, assumed open ended or a flush draw. my bad!

osirisdean · Feb 27, 2006

robwhufc said:
Implied odds apply to No Limit not Limit. There is a maximum amount you can win from Limit which barely deviates from the actual odds. Limit is a chasing game, but Styro is right - you wont get odds to chase gutshot straight - open ended straight and flush draw with 3 opponents in pot? Yes.

huh? why would implied odds not apply to limit? i get the point that the extra buck or two into the pot on the river wont drastically change the pot size (and consequently, the odds), and that in NL the bet could be substantially bigger, but... implied odds still apply in limit. unless im totally missing something. ???

that said, you (and styro) are correct about chasing a gutshot being a bad play with 4:1 pot odds with two to come. that was my fault for not reading everything. (oops!) like styro said, youd need almost 11:1 to chase, which doesnt happen unless the whole table saw the flop. (even then i think it wouldnt be enough unless the pot was raised preflop.)

Styrofoam · Feb 27, 2006

sure, implied odds still "apply" to limit but its not nearly the magnitude of No limit because the MOST you'll get out of someone is three more bets, and its more likely you'll only get 1 more bet anyways. The odds don't really fluctuate much based on that. Implied odds are what Doyal talks about in Super System with his suited connectors. HUGE payoffs when you hit. But that is in NL.

Styrofoam · Feb 27, 2006

osirisdean said:
huh? why would implied odds not apply to limit? i get the point that the extra buck or two into the pot on the river wont drastically change the pot size (and consequently, the odds), and that in NL the bet could be substantially bigger, but... implied odds still apply in limit. unless im totally missing something. ???

that said, you (and styro) are correct about chasing a gutshot being a bad play with 4:1 pot odds with two to come. that was my fault for not reading everything. (oops!) like styro said, youd need almost 11:1 to chase, which doesnt happen unless the whole table saw the flop. (even then i think it wouldnt be enough unless the pot was raised preflop.)

You're right. you need a raise and 4 callers (5.00) or 10 calls and no raise to get 11:1 odds when someone bets the flop.

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