What exactly makes tournaments have higher variance than cash games?

I'm just wondering. I do so much better at cash games. I expect to double my buy in every time and it's actually rare that I don't. I have cashed at maybe 3 tournaments out of some ungodly number. I don't get it. It's the same game.

I have gotten much better at playing short stacked. It used to be that I would be the chip leader for a while only to make a string of bad calls and blow it. Now I will be short stacked and get up to the top 10% of players remaining often multiple times in a tournament. One I played yesterday, I found myself short stacked with less than 10 BB three times and got second.

I understand there are antes around the mid stages. But what else causes the variance difference? I mean it is crazy that I can kill cash games and get strait schooled in a tournament. It's different but not THAT different. I would say maybe I should play more hands in a tourney but most of the time it's "Thank God I didn't play that K8o etc etc"

I say maybe play more hands because I see so many players get massively lucky over and over and over and over in tournaments. Like calling big raises with 96o and not hitting anything until the turn or river and winning with two pair while there were overcards and a flush draw on the board.

Seriously, what causes this variance????

This situation is complicate because is variance only.

Here is the thing:
In my opinion, in the tournament late stages, guts and luck count a lot.
Sure the best strategy counts too, considering other stuffs in between, the blinds structure, for example. It would take pages.:deal:
Cash games is the pure and finest strategy applied.

I play poker for about one year and I prefer tournaments. Cash games have always brought me only a loss. In addition, I am convinced that in tournaments, I always have the opportunity to win more money than in a cash game.

Because the "big money" is in the top.

For example, suppose you play a 9-man SNG and place in the money half the time. 50% ITM, not bad, right? Actually, could be. If you come in 3rd (out of 9) every other tournament, you will lose money. Just getting in the money will only cover a tournament entry fee or two or three. You have to be near the top to really make money. And that doesn't happen a lot. Thus more variance.

Hello.
Most of all, I like pokerstars tournaments, like tournaments with knockouts. Cash games I rarely play.

Stack sizes, quite simply the variance increase comes from the fact that blinds continuously increase throughout a tournament. So stack sizes continually shrink, this causes players to have to take chances and not play as cautious. To win tournaments you will likely have to get lucky at some point and survive someone getting lucky vs you. You have to be willing to gamble a bit in tournaments

For me the big difference is the number of players. I generally do better at cash games which I only play in a 6-max configuration. But most tournaments are full ring with 9 or 10 players. That's a lot of potentially better and/or lucky hands to get through.

I think the difference is in the tournament once you lose all your chips you are out. In a cash game if you get felted then you can rebuy and double up and be even.

In cash games you can get out anytime, in tournament you get money only in ITM, simple, in cash you can rebuy, in tournament when you fall, it's over.

in many tournaments you cant rebuy

cash game vs tournament

I've played online for many many years. over this time I've learned how to play and went to school and read books about tournament play. I'm pretty efficient at cashing in a good percentage of tournaments depending if I'm not on tilt from boredom and playing so many. Online cash play I pretty much stay away from because I've learned over the years that I suck at it. LOL.

Now brick and mortar play is considerably different. Both cash and tournaments. In tournaments, I have so much more information about the other players during the course of play. And can usually maintain a very good ROI in tournaments currently around 800% ROI over the last 20-year time span.

As for cash game Brick and mortar, I do pretty well with this game also but it is very selective playing. I usually only play on trips to Vegas and then only in the evenings say 10 pm to 1am on the strip mostly weekends against regular tourist players where I pretty much just play like a tight rock. Giving them plenty of room to pass me their money.

kozong said:

those increasing blinds makes all the difference, we can always have at least 100bb on cash game but not on tournament

Click to expand...

Very true bro

MattRyder said:

For me the big difference is the number of players. I generally do better at cash games which I only play in a 6-max configuration. But most tournaments are full ring with 9 or 10 players. That's a lot of potentially better and/or lucky hands to get through.

Click to expand...

Ya, I don’t play a lot of 6 max. The way I look at it, the turns and rivers will be way crazier in 6 max because in a 9 seat game one hand=the entire deck being dealt out (26 cards. Everyone’s hand+flop-river+burn cards)

I do want to start experimenting with it though.

JJP said:

Stack sizes, quite simply the variance increase comes from the fact that blinds continuously increase throughout a tournament. So stack sizes continually shrink, this causes players to have to take chances and not play as cautious. To win tournaments you will likely have to get lucky at some point and survive someone getting lucky vs you. You have to be willing to gamble a bit in tournaments

Click to expand...

Right. Ya I have been so card dead in every game lately. It takes me an hour and a half to get a hand thats okay but not even in my range (I try to play the top 35% of hands). But at least there you can fold forever. When Ive been in a tourney for two hours and haven’t been dealt a hand that can win+people calling my most elaborate bluffs with a pair it does kind of boil down to not being dealt a hand. Then I start going for it because you cant fold forver in a tournament. Then I bust out lol

Ante and blind structures are the biggest separation these games. In cash these are fixed. In tournaments they constantly increase. This forces you to accumulate chips to keep pace. This is also why if you win a tournament your profit is much larger. You should be looking to cash in 25% of the tournaments you’re playing in. If this isn’t the cash then there are holes in you games that need to be fixed.

Hi.
I prefer tournaments because cash games have always been unprofitable for me. In addition, taking into account the prize pool of the tournament, for example, with a buy-in of $ 5, it becomes apparent that in such a tournament, you can win more money than in a cash game.
Good luck.

According to statistics, for me tournaments have always been more profitable. So I prefer them.

It is strange how many times in a race the worst hand wins!! I find online it happens WAY more often than in live games. It can be VERY frustrating!!

The variance in tournaments comes from inconsistent payouts. Suppose you played 100 tournaments and didn't cash in 99 of them and won 1st place in 1 of them for a thousand times your payout. You would be very profitable but you had to wait for a good payout. In cash games you get your payout immediately but have the downside of being able to lose it all in a moment

GreenJigster said:

I'm just wondering. I do so much better at cash games. I expect to double my buy in every time and it's actually rare that I don't. I have cashed at maybe 3 tournaments out of some ungodly number. I don't get it. It's the same game.

I have gotten much better at playing short stacked. It used to be that I would be the chip leader for a while only to make a string of bad calls and blow it. Now I will be short stacked and get up to the top 10% of players remaining often multiple times in a tournament. One I played yesterday, I found myself short stacked with less than 10 BB three times and got second.

I understand there are antes around the mid stages. But what else causes the variance difference? I mean it is crazy that I can kill cash games and get strait schooled in a tournament. It's different but not THAT different. I would say maybe I should play more hands in a tourney but most of the time it's "Thank God I didn't play that K8o etc etc"

I say maybe play more hands because I see so many players get massively lucky over and over and over and over in tournaments. Like calling big raises with 96o and not hitting anything until the turn or river and winning with two pair while there were overcards and a flush draw on the board.

Seriously, what causes this variance????

Click to expand...

It really is two different games. Yes, the rules are the same but there are much different strategies. There are also a lot more different playing styles in a tournament than in cash games, or maybe it seems that way because with the frequent knockouts and table changes, you encounter more people. This is also a major difference. In cash games, you can sit and analyze a player hand after hand after hand until you have a solid read on them. In a tournament, you are usually working with less information because of the aforementioned factors.

Another big difference is that in cash games, you have the luxury to sit and wait for good starting hands. Your not as concerned with defending your blinds, ect. because you don't fear the rising blinds and antes. In tournament poker you don't have that luxury. You have to stay ahead of the rising blinds and antes or your stack will evaporate.

Another mark of successful tournament players is the ability to change gears. You don't see this a lot in cash games. You do see some creative plays and people going on heaters in both, but this skill is really essential if you want to be more competitive in tournament play and it is a skill not often found in cash games.

I play both and I am much more successful in tournaments. I only play one or two a day but I make deep runs in most, cash frequently and make four or five final tables a week. In cash games, I too usually double up when I play, but that's when I usually get out. Cash games seems more mathematical while tournaments seem to be more of an art (while also applying math principals..the two are actually also similarly related).

If you want to be more successful at tournaments then you need to play more and develop your own rhythm for that type of game. You cannot approach it the same as a cash game. You also must realize that different levels of tournaments are like different levels of cash games...they all have certain types of players they attract. You wouldn't expect to see a $1/$2 player suddenly at a $25/$50 game just like you wouldn't expect to see a freeroll player in a $25 buyin (unless he won a seat). Develop at the level you are comfortable with.

Best of luck.

Thanks for the reply! Youre right. Im still trying to figure out the changing gears aspect of tournaments. I love the way you put it being different cash game stakes. I just struggle with being card dead for a long time in tournaments then when I have a hand that is vulnerable it costs me chips. I just got beat out of a tournament. Basically I stacked off with TP2K because I saw this dude going all in with trash hands and he had the top kicker.

Really bumbs me out. Because I usually have the chip lead and blow it. I stayed in the top 3 for about 4 hours in this last one before I stacked off. Thinking “Not gonna do what I did last time and blow my lead” but I guess I have a leak of wanting to knock people out of the tournament so I love all ins. Such a hard thing to master.

Anyways thanks for the awesome reply.

Cash Games can be profitable, but Tournaments are more fun !!! Going up against a 1,000 other players, and making the final table, that`s what poker is all about. More than just making money, but enjoying the challenge. Whichever format you choose, when you are having fun, you win more in the long run.