What Changes Would US Players Cause If Allowed Back In Normal Online Poker

bernotas22 · Oct 16, 2013

I've been wondering what online poker with Americans would be like now if they were allowed back to be able to play on all sites and have ability to deposit and withdraw just as everyone else does, With so much people and those with money and such a variety of people I would imagine it would bring very good players and also a lot of different types of fish, those with regular deposits etc. And even those who lose millions and keep playing, Just a thought because I think that hopefully soon they will be allowed to play and it would be a very exciting thing in poker! It would be a second boom and could have the possibility of being even bigger than before, If the games got softer I would imagine also those who previously could not beat the games from around the world would start to play making the player pool extensively bigger than it is now, Also do you guys think overall US players consisted of the largest pool of fish back when they were playing on all sites?

curly · Oct 17, 2013

personally, I would play the same stakes as I did before. I am a recreational player and I was trying start at the micro stakes and move up from there. The problem was I don't put in a lot of volume, so I was never able to make enough to move up in stakes, Black Friday hit by that time. Nevertheless, I was making a small profit at the time and enjoyed it very much. I just wasn't playing well enough to move up in stakes.

detourglr · Oct 25, 2013

Myself I would make deposit of pokerstars and never play any other sites.. Pokerstars has always been good and enjoyed greatly... they had great micro stake games and tournaments with so much players.. I really miss .10 tournaments with 4000 other players.. was my little wsop event type tournament that was only .10 instead of $10,000
always loved the WSOp satellite freerolls. Always thought if I could win a seat I was ready to play at WSOP.

naruto_miu · Oct 25, 2013

I think as far as changes go, US players would be the top of the top once again on all sites, also the prize pool on most (Majority of games), would be way above the normal at the moment.. The games would become tougher than already is

bernotas22 · Oct 25, 2013

naruto_miu said:
I think as far as changes go, US players would be the top of the top once again on all sites, also the prize pool on most (Majority of games), would be way above the normal at the moment.. The games would become tougher than already is

What do you mean the top of the top once again on all sites? clearly with more players prize pools would be bigger and how would the games be tougher I would actually think it would be the opposite not only would it add so much US fish but it would also add the people with money who are losing players sure there would be the winning players but to be honest those who were winning before or are good enough are pretty much playing outside the US so I conclude strongly that you are incorrect about everything other than the prize pools being better

US isn't quite the highest average IQ country either and most poker players are losing players so It would add fish like crazy, It would be amazing to see US players so much more money to be made if that happened

naruto_miu · Oct 26, 2013

bernotas22 said:
What do you mean the top of the top once again on all sites? clearly with more players prize pools would be bigger and how would the games be tougher I would actually think it would be the opposite not only would it add so much US fish but it would also add the people with money who are losing players sure there would be the winning players but to be honest those who were winning before or are good enough are pretty much playing outside the US so I conclude strongly that you are incorrect about everything other than the prize pools being better US isn't quite the highest average IQ country either and most poker players are losing players so It would add fish like crazy, It would be amazing to see US players so much more money to be made if that happened

Prior to Black Friday the U.S was the country in which the best players were coming from and they were actually dominating the online poker sites on a weekly basis, what I mean is if you look at today's games without the U.S in it, who dominates the game week in and week out? Majority of players from Europe are running the show, maybe it's because it's a numbers game and they out weigh the rest of the populace in terms of country vs country and how they come into the gaems with a higher number of players, thus meaning that said countries % of finishing higher in the money and/or winning out right would be better than another countries, hence the reason why I stated that the U.S would dominate the online poker world once more (just my take on it), but I mean someone else would be better to answer it in that sense than I.

Poker Orifice · Oct 26, 2013

naruto_miu said:
The games would become tougher than already is

Not a chance! Alot of the best players from the US are playing online right now.

naruto_miu said:
Prior to Black Friday the U.S was the country in which the best players were coming from and they were actually dominating the online poker sites on a weekly basis, what I mean is if you look at today's games without the U.S in it, who dominates the game week in and week out? Majority of players from Europe are running the show, maybe it's because it's a numbers game and they out weigh the rest of the populace in terms of country vs country and how they come into the gaems with a higher number of players, thus meaning that said countries % of finishing higher in the money and/or winning out right would be better than another countries, hence the reason why I stated that the U.S would dominate the online poker world once more (just my take on it), but I mean someone else would be better to answer it in that sense than I.

Actually I do believe it's canada that is dominating the online MTT's these days. And no wonder with the large number of US players who've migrated to Canada.

bernotas22 · Oct 26, 2013

Yeah most of the best US players prior to black Friday I assume are still playing to this day in mexico, Canada, or elsewhere, I think sure there would add some good players but it would pretty much flood the player pool with money and it would add to the fish pool like crazy, and not playing online for this long the US players may be a little bit behind with the changes even if they follow training videos or play online, actually playing can't be replicated

jimmylytle2 · Oct 26, 2013

It could cause a second boom. One thing that we learned was that player funds must be kept separate from operating funds. I think the trend to have unlimited reentries as we see in so many tournaments would be reversed.

machine1984 · Oct 26, 2013

I think the games would get softer because of the sheer influx of players. Not as soft as the first boom but everybody grinding now would notice the difference.

IntenseHeat · Oct 26, 2013

I really don't think that there would be too much of a noticeable difference, other than the sheer volume of players. The influx of fish would be offset by the number of sharks.

I've always felt, without a doubt, that the United States has the best players in the world. But if you asked me which country had the worst players in the world, I would say the United States without hesitation. Along with the best and worst players that the U.S. has to offer, are numerous players of varying skill levels in between, the same as any other country.

The changes that I would expect to see would be tournament prize pools being larger and being able to find more cash game action at all stakes. But as far as games being softer or tougher, I'm sure you would be able to happen upon a super soft game from time to time. But you could just as easily find yourself in deep water, swimming with sharks.

HooDooKoo · Oct 26, 2013

IntenseHeat said:
I really don't think that there would be too much of a noticeable difference, other than the sheer volume of players. The influx of fish would be offset by the number of sharks.

I've always felt, without a doubt, that the United States has the best players in the world. But if you asked me which country had the worst players in the world, I would say the United States without hesitation. Along with the best and worst players that the U.S. has to offer, are numerous players of varying skill levels in between, the same as any other country.

The changes that I would expect to see would be tournament prize pools being larger and being able to find more cash game action at all stakes. But as far as games being softer or tougher, I'm sure you would be able to happen upon a super soft game from time to time. But you could just as easily find yourself in deep water, swimming with sharks.

I completely agree with this assessment. Well done (IMO).

-HooDooKoo

rugby0 · Oct 26, 2013

When online poker becomes legal in all the united states poker will explode online, live, back rooms, bars and offices. The expansion of the game will bring more interest and more sponsors for t.v. events. More fish on line and at the casinos.

United · Oct 26, 2013

rugby0 said:
When online poker becomes legal in all the united states poker will explode online, live, back rooms, bars and offices. The expansion of the game will bring more interest and more sponsors for t.v. events. More fish on line and at the casinos.

^
Pretty much this, though I feel US players will be more cautious playing online at any of those hit on Black Friday.

KoRnholio · Oct 26, 2013

The games would get easier. Right now only the hardcore US grinders who jump through hoops/already have money online are able to play. If all US players were able to deposit and play easily, it would bring more fish/recreation players back into the game.

SyKoChiller · Oct 26, 2013

bernotas22 said:
it would be a very exciting thing in poker! It would be a second boom and could have the possibility of being even bigger than before

I think your right on the $ with the above quote. All the American's who have taken up OLP post-Black Friday, myself included, would love the chance to play on the numerous other (Forbidden For Now) Anti-American sites.
I think PStars and the other big ones would see a huge BOOM at the expense of some of the smaller US facing sites still trucking along atm. I'm not a big depositor, only done it once on Bovada & once on America's Card Room (Even though I'm a horrible player yet have decent BR on 7 OLP sites.... Chuckles), but I would love the chance to play on PKR, even if it meant a deposit! Love the entire concept PKR brings to OLP, even if I can only play for play $.
Hurry the heck up US leaders; get America's OLP players back on the World Stage!
* IRONICALLY; This past week there was MAJOR NEWS involving Chase Bank accounts & just about every other US bank will likely follow suit in the coming months.
CHASE BANK will not process ANY INTERNATIONAL TRANSFERS going OUT of the US. You can RECIEVE International Transfers to your CHASE account, just not send them out! They even announced Account Activity LIMITS per Statement Cycle, calculated by adding ALL withdraws & deposits together!!!
Wait this is still AMERICA RIGHT?! - Oh wait I forgot we lost that ideology war several decades back & have been suffocating under the slow & steady creep of TOTALITARIAN AUTHORITARIANISM for longer than many of us have been alive.
But seriously; the CHASE BANK thing sounds eerily similar to something Hitler/Nazi germany did right before things started to get REALLY BAD for the Jews. Perhaps its a signal of impending Grecian style account seizures headed our way? - Ask your grandparents or great grandparents, if your lucky enough to have them around - Only a fool trusts the BANK!
That new Chase policy by itself would prevent any American's from depositing on any site period; At least CHASE customers......... for now! Withdrawing shouldn't be a problem since its designed to keep $$$ from leaving America. If your a FOOL they will let you transfer all the $$$ you want here but you may feel like your money is living in Hotel California before long.

nomadnative · Oct 26, 2013

I use to be an online and cash game pro before black Friday. The play was super soft when I multi tabled $1/2. After that the online games became pretty hard. Sites like Carbon and Cake became refugee camps for online pros and not a lot of recreational players wanted to jump through the hoops. Now I play 2/5 or 5/10 live and just play on bovada for big tournaments or WSOP qualifiers. Poker is more popular now than it was then. When US players can play on big sites it will get tremendously easier, just like before, for every pro that comes back there will be multiple fish.

I can't wait!!!

natsgrampy · Oct 26, 2013

I believe it will be much softer than before we are allowed to play again. Many serious, money making "pros" from the US are still playing now. They are merely playing from a different location, ie Canada.

You will not have a tremendous influx of "great" players as they never left. The players who will be allowed to play will just "water down" the fields/

Here is how I see it. If you have 15 pros in a game with 100 runners now, when US is allowed you will still have 15 pros, but, perhaps 200 runners. It makes for a larger prize pool and softer games.

Me Thinks!

bernotas22 · Oct 26, 2013

SyKoChiller said:
I think your right on the $ with the above quote. All the American's who have taken up OLP post-Black Friday, myself included, would love the chance to play on the numerous other (Forbidden For Now) Anti-American sites.
I think Pokerstars and the other big ones would see a huge BOOM at the expense of some of the smaller US facing sites still trucking along atm. I'm not a big depositor, only done it once on Bovada & once on America's Card Room (Even though I'm a horrible player yet have decent BR on 7 OLP sites.... Chuckles), but I would love the chance to play on PKR, even if it meant a deposit! Love the entire concept PKR brings to OLP, even if I can only play for play $.
Hurry the heck up US leaders; get America's OLP players back on the World Stage!
* IRONICALLY; This past week there was MAJOR NEWS involving Chase Bank accounts & just about every other US bank will likely follow suit in the coming months.
CHASE BANK will not process ANY INTERNATIONAL TRANSFERS going OUT of the US. You can RECIEVE International Transfers to your CHASE account, just not send them out! They even announced Account Activity LIMITS per Statement Cycle, calculated by adding ALL withdraws & deposits together!!!
Wait this is still AMERICA RIGHT?! - Oh wait I forgot we lost that ideology war several decades back & have been suffocating under the slow & steady creep of TOTALITARIAN AUTHORITARIANISM for longer than many of us have been alive.
But seriously; the CHASE BANK thing sounds eerily similar to something Hitler/Nazi Germany did right before things started to get REALLY BAD for the Jews. Perhaps its a signal of impending Grecian style account seizures headed our way? - Ask your grandparents or great grandparents, if your lucky enough to have them around - Only a fool trusts the BANK!
That new Chase policy by itself would prevent any American's from depositing on any site period; At least CHASE customers......... for now! Withdrawing shouldn't be a problem since its designed to keep $$$ from leaving America. If your a FOOL they will let you transfer all the $$$ you want here but you may feel like your money is living in Hotel California before long.

Im only worried the Zynga pro's in the US will dominate PokerStars when they are allowed to play, they will have no fear playing for millions of chips

But anyways I enjoyed your post a lot you sound like a true American who stands up for what they believe, for me personally this sounds crazy that Chase would do this, my parents have lived illegally in the US since the 90's and live upper middle class with a big suburban house multiple cars and to me living the dream, crazy though how messed up the immigration reform and other things are that they cannot be legalized after such a long time, The whole green card lottery thing never made sense to me either because it basically is random and you could be chosen for it for no reason, Now im up in Lithuania for school for a year cause I didn't want to leave illegally with no papers in the US after high school, Now im planning to go to Canada which would be my first choice and basically try to do even close to what my parents did with no education except with education in my case and legally. It's crazy that Chase such a big bank in the US would do this how could they not allow you to send internationally? I use a Swedish bank here in Lithuania cause LT banks are not to be trusted cause they fail and the Swedish banks don't fail and are very simple to use and doubt would ever implement such a thing, Truly though if the US changed in the next decade I would move there in a second, Canada though seems my route though now, and im homesick and miss Michigan, I wish Michigan would secede and become it's own country then I would just go and immigrate and become a citizen there

IntenseHeat · Oct 27, 2013

natsgrampy said:
I believe it will be much softer than before we are allowed to play again. Many serious, money making "pros" from the US are still playing now. They are merely playing from a different location, ie Canada.

You will not have a tremendous influx of "great" players as they never left. The players who will be allowed to play will just "water down" the fields/

Here is how I see it. If you have 15 pros in a game with 100 runners now, when US is allowed you will still have 15 pros, but, perhaps 200 runners. It makes for a larger prize pool and softer games.

Me Thinks!

So what you're saying is that every "great" player in U.S. has quit his job, kissed his family goodbye, packed his bags and moved to Canada? Or are you saying that the only skilled U.S. players out there are professionals? Perhaps you just mean that any player with any worthwhile skill at all would have moved to Canada.

What exactly is your definition of a "great" player? What if a player was up 30k for the year on the big 3 sites when Black Friday arrived? What if he were up twice that amount and somehow knew BF was coming down the pipe, and managed to get his money out in time. Would that be enough for someone to quit their day job, have their spouse quit theirs and move their family to another country? Since when did the willingness to put poker before everything else in your life become the measure of skill. There are a lot of "great" players out there who are not willing to quit their jobs or give up on their college education to move out of the country and chase the dream of being a professional poker player. Does that make them any less skilled?

Those players are out there. Some are lucky enough to live near casinos. Some play in underground clubs or home games. Others play in tournaments whenever they get the chance. Just because they didn't move to Canada to play on Stars or Tilt doesn't mean that they aren't out there playing when and where they can. And trust me, they are anxiously awaiting the opportunity to cripple your bank roll.

natsgrampy · Oct 27, 2013

IntenseHeat said:
So what you're saying is that every "great" player in U.S. has quit his job, kissed his family goodbye, packed his bags and moved to Canada? Or are you saying that the only skilled U.S. players out there are professionals? Perhaps you just mean that any player with any worthwhile skill at all would have moved to Canada.

What exactly is your definition of a "great" player? What if a player was up 30k for the year on the big 3 sites when Black Friday arrived? What if he were up twice that amount and somehow knew BF was coming down the pipe, and managed to get his money out in time. Would that be enough for someone to quit their day job, have their spouse quit theirs and move their family to another country? Since when did the willingness to put poker before everything else in your life become the measure of skill. There are a lot of "great" players out there who are not willing to quit their jobs or give up on their college education to move out of the country and chase the dream of being a professional poker player. Does that make them any less skilled?

Those players are out there. Some are lucky enough to live near casinos. Some play in underground clubs or home games. Others play in tournaments whenever they get the chance. Just because they didn't move to Canada to play on Stars or Tilt doesn't mean that they aren't out there playing when and where they can. And trust me, they are anxiously awaiting the opportunity to cripple your bank roll.

I don't believe every great player in the US has relocated. I do believe that those individuals who were making a living at online poker did.

I don't think, someone who made $60k playing poker could be considered a pro. I think a pro is one of those who has made 7 figures.

There is a good friend of mine whose son, did exactly that. He is currently "living" in Canada along with several others who were making their living at online poker. The players who did relocate are the 20 somethings whose families are other poker players.

There are sites that assist poker players in relocating to countries which allow online poker.

All I'm saying is that, many of the American "pros" have been playing since BF and opening OLP to the US will allow perhaps a small percentage of great players to get back on the felt.

AcesUp747 · Oct 27, 2013

I think overall the current US poker population is super fishy. If you look at the softness of the top 3 USA facing sites, vs the top 3 sites for the rest of the world, the USA sites are much fishier overall, despite having less players.

It has been a few years since USA fish who deposited weekly with their credit cards could spew some money to regs. Once those guys are allowed to play again, it will be pretty dramatic IMO.

bernotas22 · Oct 28, 2013

so 60k is not enough income per year to live off huh? wow well that must really suck, I say if you make enough to live off no matter what you are a pro, Oh no you have to make 7 figures and be a millionaire which practically only the elite of the elite pros can manage, im pretty sure by definition a pro is someone who is doing the job as his main source of income and can live off that, so if someone was making a 300k a year which is only a measly 6 figures by your definition that he is not a pro? seriously this post is gonna make me laugh for 7 weeks in a row

Not everyone needs to live in Canada or other expensive countries and live in a mansion with 2 or 3 cars, but by your definition these are the only real poker pro's, I don't think you realize how few of players manage to win 7 figures a year, And me personally I would way rather live in a simple nice house maybe in a less costly country and get a whole lot more for my money but hey that's just me the guy who doesn't think you need to make a million+ to be a pro, what a good laugh, thanks

What Changes Would US Players Cause If Allowed Back In Normal Online Poker

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