Verbal Betting Clarificiation Needed. When is it final!?

Hello,

I'm a little new to poker and wanted clarification on an action that took place last night at a holdem game with my friends.

My cousin and I were in a hand, head to head. It was my cousin's turn to bet. He starts counting his chips and says 500..., then I immediately go for a big stack of my chip, about to re-raise him to 1500. He clearly sees this and then says, wait, I change my mind, I realized I didn't want to make the move. He claims he didn't notice some cards until then (there was a potential for a straight which I had). I think he was trying to bluff me, but as soon as he saw I was eager he changed his mind. I acted a bit fast, but thought his move was done.

My argument was he said he was going to play by making a bet, making it final. His... and the tables, unfortunately, who ended up agreeing with him, said since he did not push in the money in the table it did not make his bet final. They determined that placing the chips on the table is the final bet.

I believe a verbal call overrides any physical action in poker, but did I act too quickly for it to count?

Can someone please clarify what should have happened here?

Thanks,

PokerPete1986

Yes, verbal is final generally.

Different places could have different rules, but home games I have played at as well as clubs etc verbal was final. Would imagine the same in a casino but I generally just count out and put in the bet the times I have played in casinos.

To be safe just wait until they have the chips put in the middle before making a move for your chips and it would avoid this, but IMO his 500 bet should have stood.

Yeah verbal is binding but only on a players turn to act

For example if I say I'm going to raise or just "raise" when it is not my turn it's not binding


Here is an accidental verbal action that is still binding:

Isn't whatever you do first binding? Or else the player acting can change his amount or play based on the other player's reaction.

If you put out 200 chips, then say 500, 500 is not the accepted amount.

^^^ Yup

I've actually made a mistake a few times playing live where I say "raise" and put the calling chips in first to make the raise amount simpler then be told "You have to min raise now"

Whoops

ditto on the correct, first action would be binding. Guess I looked at it based on example of the verbal and then changing mind with no chip movement, so yeah that would be more accurate.

Good catch moots.

On that same note as well however if its 1 chip placed out without a verbalization that you want to raise then based on a 1 chip rule it makes it a call.........like in a 1/2 cash game putting out a 5$ chip without anouncing a raise means your just calling the 2$ ..............clear as mud right lol

^^^ I've done that before too lol

Some one raises to 1K I throw in a 5K chip to raise and it's a call =(

lol

mootso said:

Isn't whatever you do first binding? Or else the player acting can change his amount or play based on the other player's reaction.

If you put out 200 chips, then say 500, 500 is not the accepted amount.

Click to expand...

^ yeah, this.

If you do both at the same time, for example, if you say "Bet 500" while you're sliding an amount of chips that's more or less than 500 out, your verbal action is binding and you'll be required to make the bet 500.

The second video - easy decision - he called verbally after chips pushed in

Yeah but he didn't mean to call

he said "okay I call it" meaning that he will make the decision to call the bet or not but they took it as "I call the bet"

Whatever the rule, in a home game I would always wait until the player has physically put their chips in the middle. You dont have a floor man to sort out these disputes at home.

In a home game the rules should be defined before hand. If there has been no rule stated about a situation before the game then majority rules.

As soon as you put the chip in the middle even though it is a misclick it was a binding and you cannot withdraw the balance that you intent to bet verbally.

Definitely sounds like a home game, because every place I've played verbal is binding.

i always wait to make my play on the table until it is clear to me the action before me. if it isnt clear i ask to for clarification so i dont make a mistake and as i have seen a verbal response is binding. lmao sounds like a wild home game. a word of advise to you pokerpete wait till player in front of you to finish his play before making any move to your play.

once the movement was made there is no fly back, once the bet is made it is effective, in no case can you regret it and stop it.

pokerpete1986 said:

Hello,

I'm a little new to poker and wanted clarification on an action that took place last night at a holdem game with my friends.

My cousin and I were in a hand, head to head. It was my cousin's turn to bet. He starts counting his chips and says 500..., then I immediately go for a big stack of my chip, about to re-raise him to 1500. He clearly sees this and then says, wait, I change my mind,
...
Can someone please clarify what should have happened here?

Thanks,

PokerPete1986

Click to expand...

When looking for "official rules" I suggest using Tournament Directors Association handbook available at:
TDA Poker Rules - Poker Tournament Directors AssociationPoker Tournament Directors Association (pokertda.com)

In the case you are asking about I think this is the guidance you need:
40: Methods of Betting: Verbal and Chips
A:Bets are by verbal declaration and/or pushing out chips. If a player does both, whichever is first defins the bet. If simultaneous, a clear and reasonable verbal declaration takes precedence, otherwise the chips play.


B: Verbal declarations may be general (“call”, “raise”), a specific amount only (“one thousand”) or both (“raise, one thousand”).


C: For all betting rules, declaring a specific amount only is the same as silently pushing out an equal amount. Ex: Declaring “two hundred” is the same as silently pushing out 200 in chips.