The Truth Behind Seized Poker Sites

I work closely with a casino rep and we were recently talking about the big 3 seized sites as well as the recent ones. I was a little confused on why the sites were being shut down and what the DOJ reasons were. I originally thought that the government couldnt regulate the transactions and they wanted taxes and whatnot. He gave me an explanation which I think I should share with everyone. From what I now understand, the big casino corporations (i.e. Harrahs, Bellagio, etc.) weren't getting a piece of the online market. These casinos wanted to get a piece of the market share of online poker, but FT and PS and all these other sites had all the market locked up. If these casinos tried to enter the market with competition like this, there would be no shot.So now the casinos are cutting deals with some of the people in government, and the websites will be shut down to allow these casinos to start out on an even level with all these other websites. Then, once the US casinos have their own software and are up and running, the DOJ will keep these international sites tied up in legalities so the us casino poker software can gain a good market share. When everyone is a couple months without online poker, once the "legal" sites are up (i.e. the big casino companies) everyone will flock to their websites as they are the only ones that are going to be legal online until they allow the international sites back in on the action. Its just a matter of the casinos in the US wanting a cut of the market, because their business is being driven down.

Nice theory, but how would casinos get around internet based gambling? The very same stooopid law passed back in '06 would also effect them. Only congress can repeal the law and that doesn't appear likely.

The whole point is to cut out the legs of the existing poker sites so when they legislate the legalization, everyone is starting out equal with an open market to be had. The '06 law would be wiped and and poker would be legalized for US based poker sites, which would be these casinos.

usetheion13 said:

The whole point is to cut out the legs of the existing poker sites so when they legislate the legalization, everyone is starting out equal with an open market to be had. The '06 law would be wiped and and poker would be legalized for US based poker sites, which would be these casinos.

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If this were true then surely a bit more work is needed, because you can be fairly sure that Facebook poker is sitting there with a real money option just ready to roll out. As Facebook poker is the biggest on the net how is anyone going to have a level playing field?

Actually OP, no offense but this theory has been floated by quite a lot of people since Black Friday. While I agree that the DOJ's actions have the effect of limiting potential future competition in a regulated market, I don't believe that it is the byproduct of some conspiracy.

If your theory is correct, who is calling the shots? As far as I know the DOJ answers to the Attorney General. Is he in on the plot? If not, then who is pulling his strings on behalf of the casinos, the President? Is there some cabal of billionaire casino owners who hold sway over the entire US govt?

This is just another example of a bureacracy mindlessly enforcing, bad legislation passed by corrupt politicians who have been elected by our fat, lazy, stupid average citizen who is too busy watching Jerry Springer to actually care about their loss of personal freedom.

Jerry Springer is awesome!

I've also seen versions of this theory floating around on the internet, and I'm somewhat inclined to believe it. It seems to me that land-based casinos would be the main benefactors of these indictments, especially given the ironic timing of online poker actually moving towards explicit legalization in the US (read: Washington D. C.).

ya might want to re-word the title of this thread > the 'speculation' behind seized poker sites, by ________

Poker Orifice said:

ya might want to re-word the title of this thread > the 'speculation' behind seized poker sites, by ________

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...Or Pixies, Magic, the Easter Bunny and other stuff I think is true but have no proof of...

I would hope there's a chance all this will happen and soon,,,I'm 65 years old,,,and would loike to go out being able to play online.

Oh my, I think I have been hoodwinked, I just read the OP's sig:

*a smart person would never believe a poker player* QFT...

usetheion13 said:

From what I now understand, the big casino corporations (i.e. Harrahs, Bellagio, etc.) weren't getting a piece of the online market. These casinos wanted to get a piece of the market share of online poker, but FT and PS and all these other sites had all the market locked up. If these casinos tried to enter the market with competition like this, there would be no shot.

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If this is the case then how do you explain the Wynn / Stars and Station Casinos / Full Tilt partnership agreements that were in place just before Black Friday hit?

While it's true that land-based casinos would have had an uphill battle on their hands in terms of the online poker market (maybe not on table games if they were ever legalised) you're ignoring the partnership angle that the biggest players on both sides were clearly pursuing before Black Friday. Stars / Tilt would have brought their existing player base and operational knowledge while Wynn / Station Casinos would have brought their knowledge of / clout with American regulators as well as their existing brand equity. Going into competition wasn't the only option.

And if Black Friday happened at the request of the land-based casinos why did they bother pursuing partnerships with the online sites in the first place? That was just a bunch of time and effort wasted, not to mention a PR problem that they had to quickly back away from once the sites were shut down. Doesn't make any sense.

Seems like a lot of speculation in a F'd up situation. I wouldn't care at this point if the land based guys jumped into the game or not, i, like most people just want to be able to log on and join a game if thats what in the hell we want to do. Then to know that the game is fair and that our cash is safe and easily accessible is icing on the cake.In fact i don't care if it's taxed, because common sense tells you that it will be , the American Gov is involved of course it will be taxed

My reasoning it's all about TAXES, the US gov is finally realizing these are billion dollar businesses, they figure take out the top 3 and the rest will have a domino affect,I mean your setting up chop in my back yard, so their saying where's my cut, all the land base casino's in the US pay taxes,these sites sure aren't nonprofit charitable organizations, heck they can rake in millions a day, basically the US says pay up or get out!!! I mean think about it do you really think the US gov would shut them down if they had been paying TAXES???? like petey said if the us gov is involved it will be taxed

MAX101 said:

My reasoning it's all about TAXES, the US gov is finally realizing these are billion dollar businesses, they figure take out the top 3 and the rest will have a domino affect,I mean your setting up chop in my back yard, so their saying where's my cut, all the land base casino's in the US pay taxes,these sites sure aren't nonprofit charitable organizations, heck they can rake in millions a day, basically the US says pay up or get out!!! I mean think about it do you really think the US gov would shut them down if they had been paying TAXES???? like petey said if the us gov is involved it will be taxed

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It's not all about taxes, otherwise legalize online poker will fix it. Most republicans think gambling is sin and evil and should be banned forever.

Land of the Free ???

Seriously, Regulate and be done with this.

I can't stand Jerry Springer.

alaskabill said:

Actually OP, no offense but this theory has been floated by quite a lot of people since Black Friday. While I agree that the DOJ's actions have the effect of limiting potential future competition in a regulated market, I don't believe that it is the byproduct of some conspiracy.

If your theory is correct, who is calling the shots? As far as I know the DOJ answers to the Attorney General. Is he in on the plot? If not, then who is pulling his strings on behalf of the casinos, the President? Is there some cabal of billionaire casino owners who hold sway over the entire US govt?

This is just another example of a bureacracy mindlessly enforcing, bad legislation passed by corrupt politicians who have been elected by our fat, lazy, stupid average citizen who is too busy watching Jerry Springer to actually care about their loss of personal freedom.

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Have you been living under a rock? more than friggin likely there is.

Roller said:

Land of the Free ???

Seriously, Regulate and be done with this.

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If only politicians actually thought logically it would be that easy. Unfortunately you people keep voting in morons and the only election issues that ever seem to get noticed are their stances on whether or not they are cutting/raising taxes. Logic and common sense have no place in modern politics.

pokerchris said:

It's not all about taxes, otherwise legalize online poker will fix it. Most republicans think gambling is sin and evil and should be banned forever.

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This is true, which is why I've been saying all along that emotional and rights-based arguments won't work on them.

That said I think only the most staunch of believers will hold on to that position if the tax revenue and job creation figures are big enough...

My theory is, Steroids! These big sites are obviously using them and HGH. Think about it, a couple years ago you would log into PS and they would have 40K players at tables. Now you log in and see 144K players. This is after no more US players. With growth like that it has to be roids. That's why they shut them down they are the Barry Bonds of online poker and must be stopped. After all isn't stuff like who is using steroids the reason these politicians have their "jobs"?

TheKAAHK said:

Have you been living under a rock? more than friggin likely there is.




If only politicians actually thought logically it would be that easy. Unfortunately you people keep voting in morons and the only election issues that ever seem to get noticed are their stances on whether or not they are cutting/raising taxes. Logic and common sense have no place in modern politics.

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As for your first statement, I don't want to get into an argument, when we are really on the same side here. I just see incompetence and general garden variety greed, as opposed to some well organized conspiracy. At the end of the day, it comes to the same thing I suppose.

Your second statement is spot on.

I don't live under a rock anyways, more like an ice berg.

Play money just does not give you the feeling that a cash game does. And when the word cash is heard even Uncle Sam wants his cut. Even when it is a profit of 30 cents an hour, Uncle Sam wants the whole pie.

alaskabill said:

As for your first statement, I don't want to get into an argument, when we are really on the same side here. I just see incompetence and general garden variety greed, as opposed to some well organized conspiracy. At the end of the day, it comes to the same thing I suppose.

Your second statement is spot on.

I don't live under a rock anyways, more like an ice berg.

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I hope my first comment didn't come off as argumentative or rude. Was trying to be more funny than controversial with that. Damn internet, no sarcasm font...

TheKAAHK said:

I hope my first comment didn't come off as argumentative or rude. Was trying to be more funny than controversial with that. Damn internet, no sarcasm font...

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Invent sarcasm font, become a billionaire, and pay off someone to legalize online poker...job done.