Trouble moving up in stakes

P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,128
Awards
1
Chips
25
This is going to seem very silly to some people...And I feel very foolish that this is an issue for me.

I'm a bankroll nit and I don't know how to shake it. I'm sitting on a $280 BR on pokerstars, but I find myself constantly playing 2nl and $2 or less MTTs/SNGs. My BRM plan is as follows:

-30 buy-ins for ring games @ 100BBs
-30 buy-ins for SNGs
-50 buy-ins for MTSNGs and MTTs

So, its clear that I'm pretty much rolled for 5nl, $9 SNGs, and $5 MTTs but for some reason I cannot bring myself to play at these stakes. Even though I am over-rolled for the micro-stakes and properly rolled for higher stakes, I feel so uncomfortable. I don't know if Im scared of losing money or if I expect that I'll do really bad and I don't trust myself to play higher stakes. Maybe its just very hard for me to move out of my comfort zone since I've been playing micro-limit for the longest time. I know my confidence in my game is very low, which is one of the reasons why I try to stay as low as possible-thats something I have to fix.

I have no problem playing these small stakes, but would like to be able to build a bigger bankroll and play higher stakes. Im not comparing myself to other players, but its a bit frustrating, sometimes, seeing other members moving up in stakes/build BRs at a nice rate while I feel like Im stuck in the same place.

I don't want to think that I'm only "good" enough to play micro-limits, but if thats all I am good for I should get used to it.

So, how would one overcome this? Has anyone ever gone through this or feels similar?
 
Dwilius

Dwilius

CardsChat Regular
Silver Level
Joined
May 5, 2008
Total posts
7,584
Awards
34
Chips
0
I have the same trouble Philthy. After building up to a few hundred at 5nl I just cashed out and started over instead of moving up. I'm now close to moving up again but 5nl $2 tourn. stakes has become my comfort level. Maybe we need to set some goals to make the transition. Obv. we could both be beating 25nl and $5-10 MTTs if we were playing them...
 
C

cexandmoney

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Total posts
43
Chips
0
i hope someone told you that you dont have to move up. you can play turnys you enjoy for the rest of your life and never ever play in a turny you dont want to. and who says that if you play in a higher stakes game or turny that you always have to play higher stakes. you can always play higher stakes for one turny or at a table for a little while then go back. there is no shame in taking good care of your hard earned bankrole. i dont know what you started with but be proud that it is growing. when you are ready for higher stakes you will know it and feel it.
 
jazzaxe

jazzaxe

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Total posts
1,050
Awards
1
Chips
0
Do you deposit at all? I tried to do this bankroll building from nothing and it took 18 months to acquire a $600.00 bankroll. In the last couple of months I started to deposit $50.00 every three weeks whether I win or lose. This was the amount I usually bet at my home game a couple of years ago. It didn't really cost me that much, but I thought if I had it in my cashier, I would not play scared with the fear of losing my bankroll. Since doing that, I have increased my winnings by being able to play a bit more aggressively at 10nl. Might be worth a try and then you can move up.
 
C

custo80

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Total posts
884
Chips
0
-30 buy-ins for ring games @ 100BBs
-30 buy-ins for SNGs
-50 buy-ins for MTSNGs and MTTs

How do you personally categorize the difference between a MTSNG and a MTT?
 
F

feitr

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Total posts
1,570
Chips
0
lol i have a BR of ~$4k and when i play mtts/sngs (which is once in a blue moon) i don't like spending more than $15 or so on either so that is what like 0.37%? Like you said, it is related to comfort level...i don't like dropping $20 a pop on mtts (as personally i don't expect a reasonable return given my "skill" or lackthereof in such games) but i'm very comfortable playing nl100 cash.

I'd really encourage you to give it a go. First of all, i'd try to concentrate on a particular game type instead of playing all 3. Maybe SnGs and MTTs or ring and mtts or just ring etc. SnGs and ring at least are just such a different cup of tea that they shouldn't really be mixed (imo).

Give 10NL a shot. Give yourself like a 5 buy in cushion or something, so if you lose $50 you move down. But all the micro ring games are really soft so there is no reason you can't do well there. It is probably easier to win at nl10 than at nl2. The play is just so bizzare at those levels. But trust me when i say that there is absolutely no reason to believe that you cannot play at higher micro stakes and do well. I highly doubt if anybody could make any sort of money to start a decent bankroll at 2nl anyways...i doubt i could be a winner at 2nl lol because i'd smash my head in with frustration.

And fwiw, being a bankroll nit isn't near as harmful as being the opposite. Ultimately whatever stakes you choose to play must be within your comfort zone.
 
Last edited:
C

cAPSLOCK

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Total posts
2,550
Chips
0
I know exactly how this feels Philthy.

More than anything else you have to know what *you* can absorb while adjusting to the play at the new level. If you start tilting even a little saying "Oh man I just lost two buyins.. that puts be back to ..." then you gotta back off fast.

The crazy part is (IMHO) not the PLAY at the table, but your own headfake. You are not used to seeing pots build as quickly...5 bets isn't .10, it's .25 and .25 feels big when you arent used to it I think.

I think once you get a few nice wins and upswings under your belt your be ready to roar! ;) 2nl will seem silly.

BTW, here uis one odd fact you may already have considered.

05nl and 10nl have the same max buyin. If you're rolled for 5 you're technically rolled for 10. ;)

i'M RIGHT BEHIND YOU! As soon as I get my account up a little more I'll join you at the nickel tables!

cAPS
 
Joe Slick

Joe Slick

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Total posts
305
Chips
0
This is going to seem very silly to some people...And I feel very foolish that this is an issue for me.

... and me. I posted something like this a few months back.

I wonder if there is something we could do to help each other out.

Also, this ....

In the last couple of months I started to deposit $50.00 every three weeks whether I win or lose. This was the amount I usually bet at my home game a couple of years ago. It didn't really cost me that much, but I thought if I had it in my cashier, I would not play scared with the fear of losing my bankroll.

... sounds like a GREAT idea. This could be a solution to my problem. I haven't made a deposit in years and have committed to not ever making another one again. Maybe that's a big part of my problem. Thanks for posting this jazzaxe!!
 
S

switch0723

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Total posts
8,430
Chips
0
woah, what are the chances of me reading this, straight after i just made a post about the exact same issue in the september LC thread. I also have a mental block that is preventing me from moving up to 100nl, even though im rolled by my nitty bankroll standards, its just a mental thing. I also never spend more than $5 dollars on an mtt :(. But thats mainly because i suck at them/don't like playing them for too long so don't mind going out after say an hour
 
SavagePenguin

SavagePenguin

Put the win in penguin
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Total posts
7,594
Awards
1
Chips
3
You can try doing what I did, Philthy. I'm pretty nitty with my bankroll.

When I played $2NL I made a deal with myself. When I won and additional $20 I could take it to a higher level. If I lost $20, I'd have to play $2NL again until I made $25. Then I could take $20 of that and play a higher level again (thereby keeping a $5 profit).
Then I'd repeat the process if I kept losing at the higher level... each time keeping an additional $5 when I round it out at the $2NL.

I player a short-stack game, and skipped $5NL for $10NL. And as it turned out, when I moved up, I hit the ground running and did substantially better. So having to grind it out at $2NL again was never an issue.
 
C

cAPSLOCK

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Total posts
2,550
Chips
0
Ah that is a good plan! Setting a "stoploss" max has been my way to rise in the past, but I never tried to force the extra BR boost in ala your extra $5.

It's simple genius because it doesn't make the ride less bumpy, but it will stop us from going completely flat.

Good.

cAPS
 
P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,128
Awards
1
Chips
25
i hope someone told you that you dont have to move up.you can play turnys you enjoy for the rest of your life and never ever play in a turny you dont want to. and who says that if you play in a higher stakes game or turny that you always have to play higher stakes. you can always play higher stakes for one turny or at a table for a little while then go back. there is no shame in taking good care of your hard earned bankrole. i dont know what you started with but be proud that it is growing. when you are ready for higher stakes you will know it and feel it.
True, I dont have to move up in stakes, but I see it as a sign as improvement. I could stay at the these low limits all the time if I wanted to, but I feel like Im missing out on so much. It feels like people around me are improving and moving up a steady rate and Im stuck down here. Im not saying I'll be a better play when I move up, but I would like to think that I could improve.
Do you deposit at all?
No, I don't. I'm on a very tight budget and wouldn't be able to. I like the idea though.
How do you personally categorize the difference between a MTSNG and a MTT?
They're the same thing, basically-just small differences.
lol i have a BR of ~$4k and when i play mtts/sngs (which is once in a blue moon) i don't like spending more than $15 or so on either so that is what like 0.37%? Like you said, it is related to comfort level...i don't like dropping $20 a pop on mtts (as personally i don't expect a reasonable return given my "skill" or lackthereof in such games) but i'm very comfortable playing nl100 cash.
This is exactly how I feel. I have trouble dropping even 5% of my BR on an MTT because I feel like I will not do well on them. I keep the buy-ins small because I'm looking to minimize my losses. I've very comfortable playing $2 18-seat SNGs, but nothing higher because, again, I don't expect to do well.
 
Kenzie 96

Kenzie 96

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
May 21, 2005
Total posts
13,667
Awards
9
US
Chips
135
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I see Pithy has started another thread, wonder what he's lying about this time? :)
 
Chris_TC

Chris_TC

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Total posts
925
Chips
0
Man up and move up! NL10 Gogogogogo!! :cool:
 
P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,128
Awards
1
Chips
25
Blah...this thread is pretty stupid. Can we get a lock on it?

I'll stick with micro-limits. This way, I can at least keep my losses to a minimum.
 
C

cAPSLOCK

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Total posts
2,550
Chips
0
I don't think it's lame... I think it's a common thought. But anyway.. You out there playing?
 
P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,128
Awards
1
Chips
25
Not really playing...just throwing money away.
 
F

feitr

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Total posts
1,570
Chips
0
There is absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to move up. Why not look at this as a new beginning where you can make new goals etc. instead of an inevitable disaster.

Ultimately, if you can't eventually move up past 2nl, you are never going to make any money off of poker, and, therefore, poker will simply be a hobby. By this logic, it doesn't really matter if you lose some money giving nl5/10 a shot, because you'll only need a bankroll that can sustain your micro games (aka. not very much). Therefore, you should give moving up a real shot. Let yourself have a $50 cushion or something before you consider it a failure.
 
odinscott

odinscott

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Total posts
1,055
Chips
0
Blah...this thread is pretty stupid. Can we get a lock on it?

I'll stick with micro-limits. This way, I can at least keep my losses to a minimum.

You keep your gains to a minimum too. That said I play alot of lower limits online lately... :p
 
P

Pokertron3000

Available for parties
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Total posts
3,137
Chips
0
I moved up to 3 dollar games before I was ready and was winning a lot at 1st but then started to lose. So I decided to be mega conservative and get 100 buy ins before I move to 3$ games again.

Im nearly there but im gonna work on the win a few dollar games to get a little cushion over my 100 buy ins then move up untill I start losing then move down again for a bit if I do. This way Im protecting my bankroll if I am not ready.

Oh I play 18 man sngs and am a total nit so we may differ somewhat.
 
ganjvelo

ganjvelo

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Total posts
27
Chips
0
i have the same problem, ithink its about confidence mostly and increase of the level of players when u increase the stake
 
C

cAPSLOCK

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Total posts
2,550
Chips
0
IMHO the difference in play quality on stars between 02nl and 10nl is fairly negligible.

It is just about getting used to building pots faster and wider swings. Getting your head around this is "deceptively simple".

Another thing that has helped me bridge a limit transition is forcing myself to think in BETS rather than an amount.

cAPS
 
Wonka22

Wonka22

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Total posts
746
Chips
0
I don't know where you prefer to play, but, I think almost all sites have a filter.....filter out the micro and low stake games.

Or, continue to play them...as long as you're having fun.

If on the other hand you're trying to make a living then you're doing yourself a disservice, and you NEED to move up. Then of course..poker becomes a job. Wish I were good enough to make poker my job.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
Chips
0
Heh, maybe you're not reading your own thread any more Phil, but,

I don't think that there's anything wrong with playing where you're most comfortable. At some point the discomfort/ambition will outweigh the comfort with the playing situation.

But at the same time, I would have suggested what someone else has mentioned: take 2 buyins, designate that as money for the new level and play at the new level until those 2 buyins are gone.
 
Top