Tourney only professionals...

Ronaldadio · Sep 10, 2012

Hello all.

Do you know if many of the pros out there play only/ mainly Tourneys?

I would imagine in the old days this would have been very difficult, but with the net allowing lots of tourneys every second of the day, it would be possible.

Also, how do you think these guys work out their `business plan` (bankroll, ROI, number of tourneys, etc, etc)

This is all a point of interest to me as I'm a tourney player before a ring game or SNG player.

nc_royals · Sep 12, 2012

I think Seidel is one that doesnt play much anything but tournies. Im sure there are more than him though. Alot of tourney players are backed and Im sure they work that into their bankroll.

duggs · Sep 12, 2012

plenty out there, HITTHEPANDA, Bigdogpckt5s, Kidcardiff, aaaaaaaaaaaa, and plenty more

duggs · Sep 12, 2012

and those are just the high stakes ones i know of off the top of my head

cardriverx · Sep 12, 2012

also CC's own Pascal who is a beast

ckickenking · Sep 12, 2012

Anyone ever heard of SNG pros?

c double · Sep 13, 2012

im sure they're out there.. specialists anyways who sit there and ten-table SnG's- the style of play lends itself more to multi-tabling actually though it would get tough if you got heads up in three or four at a time..

tenbob · Sep 13, 2012

I know 2 tourney professionals in real life.

The swings are protty brutal, I know at least one of them is staked 50% at all times. The other has gone between working in the card club for pretty low wages and grinding full time at least twice since i met him.

Poker Orifice · Sep 13, 2012

Ronaldadio said:
Do you know if many of the pros out there play only/ mainly Tourneys?

Also, how do you think these guys work out their `business plan` (bankroll, ROI, number of tourneys, etc, etc)

.

There are literally THOUSANDS of them. Not meaning to be a dick but I'm not even sure you're actually serious with your question?
Pretty sure the 'bus. plan' is > bankroll management, run good, & get better.

ckickenking said:
Anyone ever heard of SNG pros?

LOTS!

c double said:
im sure they're out there.. specialists anyways who sit there and ten-table SnG's- the style of play lends itself more to multi-tabling actually though it would get tough if you got heads up in three or four at a time..

I would think 20+ tables would be much more common (& accurate) for STT-SNG players who play for a living.

nc_royals · Sep 13, 2012

ckickenking said:
Anyone ever heard of SNG pros?

Collin Moshman ---- He has a good book out about it as well.... Sit n Go Strategy

Arjonius · Sep 13, 2012

There are lots of pros who make their livings from MTTs or SNGs. Most aren't widely known is all, basically because they haven't done enough to become visible to the general poker public. If you need examples, look at the last several wsop ME winners and final tables. A good number of them were already full-time pros, but few of us had ever heard of them.

MasterOfDisaster · Sep 13, 2012

Lol somebody told me I am one rofl

Ronaldadio · Sep 13, 2012

Poker Orifice said:
There are literally THOUSANDS of them. Not meaning to be a dick but I'm not even sure you're actually serious with your question?
Pretty sure the 'bus. plan' is > bankroll management, run good, & get better.

LOTS!

I would think 20+ tables would be much more common (& accurate) for STT-SNG players who play for a living.

Yes, serious question. I was interested to know if most pro players play ring games in the main.

A business plan could not be based around "Run good". If they did they would not last very long.

A business plan would normally be based around something like 2 tourneys a day, £50 buy in = around 30 tourneys a month. Aim to be in the money 1:5 / Final table 1:10 / win 1:50 - or something like that.

Bankroll management is an obvious one, but the bankroll they play with would be interesting to know. I would guess if they wanted to make a return of say £50k they would probably need about £500K ?

BTW Poker Orifice, u r sounding like a dick, but there u go

duggs · Sep 13, 2012

Ronaldadio said:
Yes, serious question. I was interested to know if most pro players play ring games in the main.

A business plan could not be based around "Run good". If they did they would not last very long.

A business plan would normally be based around something like 2 tourneys a day, £50 buy in = around 30 tourneys a month. Aim to be in the money 1:5 / Final table 1:10 / win 1:50 - or something like that.

Bankroll management is an obvious one, but the bankroll they play with would be interesting to know. I would guess if they wanted to make a return of say £50k they would probably need about £500K ?

BTW Poker Orifice, u r sounding like a dick, but there u go

there bankroll would be about 300-500buyin for their stakes and they would approx 20table and want tro have an ROI over 40%

Debi · Sep 13, 2012

I know loads of professional tournament players and can't think of a single one who does not also play cash.

ddeely1 · Sep 13, 2012

I think playing cash on the side is almost a requirement to being a proper poker professional. Most tournament specialists still play cash because the variance is so much lower and it allows them to keep their bankrolls entact. A lot of pros use cash game wins to "freeroll" themselves into tournies.

Arjonius · Sep 14, 2012

duggs said:
there bankroll would be about 300-500buyin for their stakes and they would approx 20table and want tro have an ROI over 40%

Even if you're 20-tabling MTTs, 300-500 buyins is a lot. If you're using a BRM guideline of say 25 buyins, it's 25 total, not 25 per table. Statistically, there is little difference in the chance of going broke between playing 25 tables at once with a 25 buyin roll and playing 25 tournaments one at a time. The former is unwise for other reasons e,g, your entire roll is in play if / when you tilt.

Poker Orifice · Sep 15, 2012

Ronaldadio said:
Yes, serious question. I was interested to know if most pro players play ring games in the main.

A business plan could not be based around "Run good". If they did they would not last very long.

A business plan would normally be based around something like 2 tourneys a day, £50 buy in = around 30 tourneys a month. Aim to be in the money 1:5 / Final table 1:10 / win 1:50 - or something like that.

/quote]
Actually aim to 'Run Good' & 'Get Better' is not far off (much closer than attempting to anticipate ITM 1:5 & final Table 1:10 with field sizes varying... also ITM is typically more like 11-14%).

Your example of 2 tourneys/day, 30/month is kind of absurd tbh. For most > 30/day would be a slow day.
Most online Tournament pros play tournaments. There are many!
How big of a bankroll to win $50k/yr.? Well, probably 200buyins for whatever level they're playing at (maybe 300), then enough volume to win $50k. (why would they need 10x their annual profit, sitting in their bankroll? makes no sense. They could have far less than $50k in bankroll, but still profit $50k/yr. playing tournaments).

duggs · Sep 15, 2012

dakota-xx said:
I know loads of professional tournament players and can't think of a single one who does not also play cash.

live tournament pro's yes, online pro's i would disagree very strongly that this is normal

Ronaldadio · Sep 15, 2012

Poker Orifice said:
Ronaldadio said:

Yes, serious question. I was interested to know if most pro players play ring games in the main.

A business plan could not be based around "Run good". If they did they would not last very long.

A business plan would normally be based around something like 2 tourneys a day, £50 buy in = around 30 tourneys a month. Aim to be in the money 1:5 / Final table 1:10 / win 1:50 - or something like that.

/quote]
Actually aim to 'Run Good' & 'Get Better' is not far off (much closer than attempting to anticipate ITM 1:5 & final Table 1:10 with field sizes varying... also ITM is typically more like 11-14%).

Your example of 2 tourneys/day, 30/month is kind of absurd tbh. For most > 30/day would be a slow day.
Most online Tournament pros play tournaments. There are many!
How big of a bankroll to win $50k/yr.? Well, probably 200buyins for whatever level they're playing at (maybe 300), then enough volume to win $50k. (why would they need 10x their annual profit, sitting in their bankroll? makes no sense. They could have far less than $50k in bankroll, but still profit $50k/yr. playing tournaments).

Click to expand...

Have u got something against me
It was an example. I put down a unrealistic figure so people would give me a better guess.
I don't have any idea what they would need to do, how often they need to place, etc, etc
Even the $50k a Year thing I would think is not a lot in the poker World, but it was an example

duggs · Sep 15, 2012

Arjonius said:
Even if you're 20-tabling MTTs, 300-500 buyins is a lot. If you're using a BRM guideline of say 25 buyins, it's 25 total, not 25 per table. Statistically, there is little difference in the chance of going broke between playing 25 tables at once with a 25 buyin roll and playing 25 tournaments one at a time. The former is unwise for other reasons e,g, your entire roll is in play if / when you tilt.

so strongly disagree its not funny, BRM requirements sky rocket when

a) dropping stakes is extremely costly to your hourly,
b) their roll is not replaceable
c) obviously to get tables up they have an ABI which they need to balance.
d) everyone underestimates the swings players go through especially when their schedule includes alot of 1k fields daily.
e) statistically you need to be overrolled since downswings happen so often.
f) this is all under assumption its unbacked, because when backed your roll is infinite

Ronaldadio · Sep 15, 2012

duggs said:
live tournament pro's yes, online pro's i would disagree very strongly that this is normal

I would think there is more chance of having online tourney pros than live ones?

If u play online u have more tourneys to chose from every min of every day.

Live on the other hand - You travel 300 mile to play a game and u r out in first 3 hours?

duggs · Sep 15, 2012

Ronaldadio said:
I would think there is more chance of having online tourney pros than live ones?

If u play online u have more tourneys to chose from every min of every day.

Live on the other hand - You travel 300 mile to play a game and u r out in first 3 hours?

yes of course, and the abundance of tournaments available is why they dont play cash

Ronaldadio · Sep 15, 2012

duggs said:
yes of course, and the abundance of tournaments available is why they dont play cash

Sorry, mis read your post

With you now

Poker Orifice · Sep 15, 2012

Ronaldadio said:
Poker Orifice said:

Have u got something against me
It was an example. I put down a unrealistic figure so people would give me a better guess.
I don't have any idea what they would need to do, how often they need to place, etc, etc
Even the $50k a Year thing I would think is not a lot in the poker World, but it was an example

Click to expand...

Have I got something against you? No! Not at all.
$50k/yr. bankroll would indeed be small if you were referring to Live tourney players who play the $10k buyins.
For online though (as stated already), 200buyins (maybe 300+) is pretty much the norm. (so if you're talking about playing $50 avg. bi, then you'd want $10-15k in your bankroll.).

There are many online tournament pros. Some play less volume than others. Some HSMTT players will play a wide variety of buyins, even throwing in $10r/a, etc. (you'll even see a bunch of them in those $2r/a 3x-Turbo $100k guar. on Stars). Others will play less volume, focusing on higher buyins only (ie. Adam Geyer (csimmsux), gboro, etc.). Some play 1500+ tournaments per month.
Most don't play cash game online. Some will add in SNG-MTT (45's on FTP, 180's on Stars, etc.). Generally speaking > tourney players play tourneys.

Tourney only professionals...

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