Tournaments vs Ring games

I always seem to do fairly well in tournament or sitngoes but when I play even the small stakes in a nl ring game I always seem to lose? I play a litle tighter in ring games. It never seems to matter. Anyone have any advice on how to attack ring games differently than tourneys?

I completely agree. With ring games you just have to convince yourself at a certain point when its best to leave. I cannot count the number of times I just got greedy and lost money instead of leaving with a modest take.

The difference between tournament poker & ring game poker is that ring games are played with a deep stack (meaning, you have more big blinds in your stack playing a cash game than you do in a tournament).

This difference in stack sizes mean that preflop & the flop betting round becomes less important in a cash game, and the turn & river become more important.

So while in a tournament, a hand like [Ks][Qc] is so much better than a hand like [7c][5c], in a cash game, they become very close in value. The KQo is fairly strong preflop, and will flop big pairs & thus will play pretty well on the flop. But because in a cash game there is so much money behind on the turn & river, 75s becomes a much stronger hand. So the 75s can call relatively small flop bets with a flush draw/straight-draw/ect. and can make big money when they hit their draw (and fold away a small amount when they miss). But in a tournament, its just so easy to get all in on the flop or preflop, that this option isn't available, and 75s is just trash.

So in a cash game, don't go broke with top pair or an overpair. You'll need stronger hands to put your whole stack in with if you're playing 100 big blinds deep.

Playing at cash tables is more exiting than tournaments. I cannot concantrate on my game for a long period.And a tournament usually takes 5-6 hours to finish. So I prefer cash tables mostly.

c9h13no3 said it right... Cash games get a little bit more tricky, you'll see a lot more bluffing and a lot more looser calls then in Tournament because as he said cash games are deep stack.. Well you`ll find some deep stack tournaments as well but they are usually big buy ins, pros love them because their skill lets them get involved in many more pots and outplay worse players post flop. In cash games you`ll see many people calling in the position with suited As, Ks and even Qs trying to catch that flush and stack you up because you fall in love to much with your TPTK. In a cash games you really have to pay attention to the range of hands your opponents raise or call your raises. In tournaments (except the deep stack) majority of players play straigh up ABC poker. Raise premium hands , steal the blinds and all that stuff but because they dont have that many chips relatively to the blinds they dont have too much space to call many raises with suited or not connectors since it may cost them 1/8 of their stack and thats too much(sometime you`ll find a player who takes that risk anyway but most player dont do that they rather wait for premium hand and push or try to extract as much money as possible)... Cash games are great way to improve your game. But proper bankroll Management is very important so choose your stakes wisely.

My problem is the opposite. I lose in sitngoes but can win in small ring games. Small ring games in the are of .50/1.00 and under. Anything else I can't seem to master. I think these are super agressive stakes though and that's why.

justadream82 said:

My problem is the opposite. I lose in sitngoes but can win in small ring games. Small ring games in the are of .50/1.00 and under. Anything else I can't seem to master. I think these are super agressive stakes though and that's why.

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From what i heard $.50/$1.00 is harder then $1/$2 maybe you should give it a try...

I know how you feel. I think the biggest difference between ring and tournament games I've noticed is the tendency for people to invest in seeing the river seemingly regardless of any sane probability-based reason. Low stakes ring games definitely attract a different breed. I often feel like I'm sitting at a table full of supermen in a world without kryptonite;-) It seems every hand is overbet and every 2 outer rewarded. To minimize the bluff blaster I generaly play pot limit and proceed with some caution until I'm confident I have the winner. More often than not when I make a max bet with the nuts I get at least called if not raised! So my one tidbit would be join the crowd and overbet - your winners.

Its harder to play cash games, when you started out with tourneys. Because the tournament strategy doesnt fit to cash games. Mabye you think you did everything right, and if it was a tournament, you did, but in cash game, you did not. Especially online, when you have played 4-5 months or more in that tight-agressive mode, then it becomes real hard(ofcourse you can study all the suggested hand ranges in position and so on, but that only helps in micro/low stakes)

BostonRobber said:

I know how you feel. I think the biggest difference between ring and tournament games I've noticed is the tendency for people to invest in seeing the river seemingly regardless of any sane probability-based reason. Low stakes ring games definitely attract a different breed. I often feel like I'm sitting at a table full of supermen in a world without kryptonite;-) It seems every hand is overbet and every 2 outer rewarded. To minimize the bluff blaster I generaly play pot limit and proceed with some caution until I'm confident I have the winner. More often than not when I make a max bet with the nuts I get at least called if not raised! So my one tidbit would be join the crowd and overbet - your winners.

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You have to remember that those who chase against the odds are the people you will be making money of. If they only hit that flush on the river %20 of the time you will win %80 of the time so that's profit for you. Just make them pay for it.. Give them improper odds, at the end you will be the one showing profit. Just remember, keep track of your opponents.. If you know that this player is capable of chasing the flush and it does come on the river, dont bet anymore and dont pay anymore... There will be that %20 of the time he will hit.. I know it seems like it is more often but trust the mathematics....

It's a very useful comment that you made, c9h13no3, because I have exactly the same problem that ecoutee72 has.
While I have quite good results on freerolls (not exceptionnal, but probably better than average), when I tried to play on microlimit CG, I always had problems and got broke.
One of my biggest problem on ring game, is that playing on only one table can be boring, when I get only trash hands.
So, from time to time, I make moves with trash hands, put a lot in the pot during preflop and turn, and then it's hard to let the hand go because I already put a lot in the pot. So I get broke on showdown...
Maybe if I played on several tables I could avoid the boring effect and play only good hands, but on the other day, I guess that it requires more skills to play on different tables...
My only solution right now is that I simply stopped playing CG

maolitas said:

It's a very useful comment that you made, c9h13no3, because I have exactly the same problem that ecoutee72 has.
While I have quite good results on freerolls (not exceptionnal, but probably better than average), when I tried to play on microlimit CG, I always had problems and got broke.
One of my biggest problem on ring game, is that playing on only one table can be boring, when I get only trash hands.
So, from time to time, I make moves with trash hands, put a lot in the pot during preflop and turn, and then it's hard to let the hand go because I already put a lot in the pot. So I get broke on showdown...
Maybe if I played on several tables I could avoid the boring effect and play only good hands, but on the other day, I guess that it requires more skills to play on different tables...
My only solution right now is that I simply stopped playing CG

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I wouldn't add more tables.. Play one table get comfortable with the game and the stake you are playing in and then once you start being profitable add one more table.. Problem is that without a tracking software like Poker Tracker you are not going to get to focus on your opponents if you open up more then 1 table... In January i was a winning player. I did great.. i had 40/BB i was running a tracking software and 4 tables.. then in February my demo has expired (since i didnt feel like buying it ) and this month i have made 0... my bankroll has not moved anywhere..I continued to multitable.. This month so far i decided to go back to 1 table and no software and i`m already 20/BB .. Paying attention to your opponents is big difference.. It can turn your game around... All thoses time you called all in because you did not pay attention to the players previous moves can cost you... If you would have payed attention you would know better that he is holding the nuts and your second best hand is no good here...

i think its the affect of rake ...in tournaments you have a one time fee.you play for for an hour or two or longer if lucky.

but in ring game the rake is a constant pounding hammer driving everyone down to the status of loser ...

add in people using software and sites like cc and poker becomes even harder to make money at.

find the loosest tables with the worst players and the lowest rake ...get rakeback

best to play for fun ...the only rewarding way to make money is to provide something that benefits others ...

How should I approach a cash game? Should I continue to play tight and aggressive. Or should I try to play a little looser? Maybe I am just getting bluffed too much? I wish I knew where my weakness were at. At this point I am not sure what I am doing wrong. Very frustating

ecoutee72 said:

How should I approach a cash game? Should I continue to play tight and aggressive. Or should I try to play a little looser? Maybe I am just getting bluffed too much? I wish I knew where my weakness were at. At this point I am not sure what I am doing wrong. Very frustating

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We've got a whole forum for specific issues: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/

If you're playing cash games with a buy in of 10$ or less, you need to be playing a tight & aggressive game. Focus on playing the top 15% of hands, make strong hands, and bet them aggressively. The mistake your opponents will make is that they call too much with weak hands. The way you exploit this mistake to make money is to always bet hands that are stronger than theirs.

So focus on playing strong starting hands in good position, making strong hands postflop, and betting them for value.

hothandsmgee said:

I completely agree. With ring games you just have to convince yourself at a certain point when its best to leave. I cannot count the number of times I just got greedy and lost money instead of leaving with a modest take.

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I just did that! Someday, I'll hopefully learn!

In cash tournaments I have more luck with playing aggresivelly.
Tight play in tournaments is my soon end in early phase, when I ending with AA or AK suited.
Ring games I trying only sometimes for receive VIP poker points to playing VIP freerolls.

Rings or better

Unless you get top three rather frequently it is more lucrative just to play ring. If you think about it you sit in a tourney for hours to make 2 or three times your buyin, because all of these tournies are top heavy. If you play smart and patient in a ring game you tend to make more money than you would a tourney, unless you were top three like i stated before. Most players are not in that top therefore are really just waisting there time playing tournies.

if your play 6 handed u gotta be more aggressive..see more flops an lessen your startin hands...best thing to do if u gunna play tite is look for a table with a high percentage pots,,,this tab is obv loose....hense u play tite an pik ye spots....an same goes if u wanna play loose an pik up lots ov small pots,,,u pik a tite pot average table...try this for a week or 2 let me no how u get on

There is an article in this thread that you might want to read.

I have found that aggressiveness works well in cash games. A lot of raises and big bets. But be careful because if someone has a good hand they will try to trap you. If something seems suspicious for example your opponents doing a lot of check calling and they are tight players, then they most likely have a strong hand. So play aggressive yet safe.