Tournament vs Cash

#1 June 8th, 2020, 4:52 AM

I'm having a hard time feeling like I'm playing poker when I play tournaments vs when I play cash games. I know they are different beasts, but sometimes I find it so hard to apply any strategy to the tournaments because it's just an all-in fest. Because of that, I play fairly tight, but I still end up losing too many chips just trying to see a flop with a good hand (if it doesn't hit, I'm screwed).

Is this normal? Is it because I'm playing lower stakes?

It's not always like this. I've had fun and made a few final tables, but most of the time it seems to be how I described above.

Are there any good resources I should check out in regards to how to play tournaments vs cash games?

#2 June 8th, 2020, 4:07 PM

I dont like laying cash games,more entertaining for me is mtt and sit and go ournaments.

#3 June 8th, 2020, 4:24 PM

I afraid from cash games cause you loose immediately and you can get an only a small amount of money in MTT you can lose a bit money for a ticket but if fortune smile you can reach good amount of money!

#4 June 8th, 2020, 9:09 PM

I like tournaments. It's like an epic battle with no escape except winning.

Cash games are very different, you can leave whenever you want.

#5 June 8th, 2020, 10:02 PM

I use cash games to build my bankroll to use for buy-ins for tournaments.

#6 June 8th, 2020, 10:33 PM

Everything I have won in tournaments I have lost in cash games, I do not play this modality anymore until I have studied more and have enough bankroll.

#7 June 8th, 2020, 10:37 PM

Two different skill sets. I like cash games but I am still learning. Much more comfortable with tournaments, but don't always have the time/patience to commit to a big tourney. Lots of good posts on the forum about how to play both formats.

#8 June 8th, 2020, 10:44 PM

Tournaments are for glory cash is for money. Someone said it not sure who lol.

Tournaments themselves have high amounts of variance. When you play micro and low stakes, especially reentry/rebuy , tournaments that same variance increases exponentially. This is where bankroll management comes in. You have to be able to sustain long down swings if playing tournaments. Not sure what your situation is but I have about $400 on ACR and never play higher than micros without a ticket.

Another thing to consider, but is very difficult is structure. Freezeouts and short rebuy periods are the way to go, but are hard to fill a full day of play with, especially at the micros.

Cash is king when it comes to making money online, but if you aren't bankrolled for cash yet I strongly recommend playing sngs to build it up. Smaller fields reduce variance, spotting/labeling regular fish is a lot easier, no rebuys, and the better players will win in the long run.

Hope this helps a little.

Originally Posted by Patchco89

I'm having a hard time feeling like I'm playing poker when I play tournaments vs when I play cash games. I know they are different beasts, but sometimes I find it so hard to apply any strategy to the tournaments because it's just an all-in fest. Because of that, I play fairly tight, but I still end up losing too many chips just trying to see a flop with a good hand (if it doesn't hit, I'm screwed).

Is this normal? Is it because I'm playing lower stakes?

It's not always like this. I've had fun and made a few final tables, but most of the time it seems to be how I described above.

Are there any good resources I should check out in regards to how to play tournaments vs cash games?

#9 June 9th, 2020, 12:27 AM

Most of the issues you raise are related to the stack depth differences between the two. Cash games generally involve deeper stacked play leading to much more of the decision making being done on multiple streets postflop. Short stack play as you get further in tournaments is very preflop and flop dominant as far as decisions go.

#10 June 9th, 2020, 4:07 AM

I don�t like play cash. I always prefer play tournaments. I think that tournaments are more fun and the players can develop their skills and strategy Tournament vs Cash

Sorry for my english Tournament vs Cash

#11 June 9th, 2020, 4:29 AM

cash and tournaments are 2 different philosophies. aside from that, if you cant handle losing more often then winning, then tournaments are probably not for you. the best poker players in the world win 1 thousand player tournament every 15 to 25 tournaments they play. thats some big stretch! and thats the best players! an average/mediocre player can maybe win one in 75 to 100 or more tournaments they play! imo investing too much money on tournaments might not be a winning proposition. although you can lose alot in cash games, the field is narrower and its much more probable to see a positive difference in your bank roll.

#12 June 9th, 2020, 8:58 AM

I love playing tournament because there's ending so I feel like I really win something but in a cash game, it's just endless grinding. If you find a tournament is an all in feast then your stake is pretty low and you said that you lost a lot of money just to see the flop then you probably playing it wrong.

#13 June 9th, 2020, 3:30 PM

I think it's actually 1 in 1500.

Originally Posted by celtics33

cash and tournaments are 2 different philosophies. aside from that, if you cant handle losing more often then winning, then tournaments are probably not for you. the best poker players in the world win 1 thousand player tournament every 15 to 25 tournaments they play. thats some big stretch! and thats the best players! an average/mediocre player can maybe win one in 75 to 100 or more tournaments they play! imo investing too much money on tournaments might not be a winning proposition. although you can lose alot in cash games, the field is narrower and its much more probable to see a positive difference in your bank roll.

#14 June 9th, 2020, 3:42 PM

I like cash games, but I practically don't play, I prefer much more mtt, because it is much more exciting

#15 June 9th, 2020, 3:43 PM

Cash is easier for professional players to make money compared to tournaments. The luck component of a single tournament is too large. Generally, professional players use 40 to 50 games a day to balance the luck component with multiple strengths.

#16 June 9th, 2020, 3:47 PM

I think the cash game is much more monotonous. Neither beginning nor end. It only ends when you get up from the table (or if you lose everything).
In contrast, tournaments have a process. There is a beginning of the middle and an end that I like much more because I can�t lose more than the money allotted to it, but I can win a lot more. Tournament vs Cash

I think tournaments is a lot better fun. Tournament vs Cash

#17 June 9th, 2020, 4:17 PM

I consider myself a patient of competition, that's why I think I like cash table tournaments more, because in them you must fight from the beginning to eliminate everyone and keep the big prize

#18 June 10th, 2020, 4:27 AM

Originally Posted by LJG23

I think it's actually 1 in 1500.

if you win 1 in 1500 tournaments might as well quit Tournament vs Cash

personally I wouldnt consider a player that wins at this rate intermediate/mediocre. maybe thats just me.

#19 June 10th, 2020, 4:35 AM

Cashing and winning are two different things. Higher stakes games will see more consistent winners. But this is due to much better structure and much smaller player fields. The majority of us are playing against hundreds of not thousands of entries in tournaments with unlimited reentry the variance is exponentially higher leading to winning less often even if you are a solid player.

Originally Posted by celtics33

if you win 1 in 1500 tournaments might as well quit Tournament vs Cash

personally I wouldnt consider a player that wins at this rate intermediate/mediocre. maybe thats just me.

#20 June 11th, 2020, 3:32 AM

the statistics I quoted are not my own but from the poker data base/google and they specifically say per 1 thousand player tournaments. are you making the 1 in 1500 up? if not please supply a link. if you have no proof or link then this is your imagination? imagination and reality are 2 different things.

#21 June 11th, 2020, 3:33 AM

Originally Posted by LJG23

Cashing and winning are two different things. Higher stakes games will see more consistent winners. But this is due to much better structure and much smaller player fields. The majority of us are playing against hundreds of not thousands of entries in tournaments with unlimited reentry the variance is exponentially higher leading to winning less often even if you are a solid player.

the statistics I quoted are not my own but from the poker data base/google and they specifically say per 1 thousand player tournaments. are you making the 1 in 1500 up? if not please supply a link. if you have no proof or link then this is your imagination? imagination and reality are 2 different things.

#22 June 11th, 2020, 6:32 AM

Honestly it's just something I heard Jonathan Little say in one of his recent webinars. If I can find it again I will send you the link. Though, I'm not sure it's something you can Google and get an accurate answer either.

I believe the disagreement stems from you comparing "us" to professionals. As I stated above they will win more often because of the player fields and tournament structures.

Consider this. Phil Helmuth has won 15 WSOP bracelets, more than any other player. Yes he's won other events but for this example I'm just considering WSOP events because we know about how many there are each year. He won his first one in 1989 and his latest in 2018. So over thirty years he's only won 15 events. How many do you think he's played? Better yet, how many entries do you think he's had since several events are now reentry/rebuy?

This is the best tournament poker player playing in the highest stakes with the best structures. Most of us play low and micro stake games and have to dodge way more bullets and will dilute our winning percentage dramatically.

There are going to be outliers, like Fedor Holz epic year (2016 I believe) when he just won every other tournament he played in it seemed. But this is by no means the norm.

I'd also like to add that private games like the cards chat freerolls kind of fall into the better players/better structure category. It's been a while since I played in one but the two level late reg they had and player pools of about 150 makes it easier for the better players to win way more often than they would in other freerolls and micro stakes games open to the public.

Hopefully this doesn't sound like I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. Even if I'm not exactly right, which I don't know that you could actually get an exact answer, it's more realistic for low/micro stake players to not expect to win one in every 100 tournaments they play that have hundreds or thousands of entries.

Originally Posted by celtics33

the statistics I quoted are not my own but from the poker data base/google and they specifically say per 1 thousand player tournaments. are you making the 1 in 1500 up? if not please supply a link. if you have no proof or link then this is your imagination? imagination and reality are 2 different things.

#23 June 11th, 2020, 7:47 PM

Tournaments are much better, because everyone initially has the same number of chips and equal conditions. Also, due to the change of places of players during the game, we get protection from those who play as a team.

But the most important thing is that the tournaments are more logical and understandable, but in the cash very many people use slowplay tactic. Because of this you often lose money, even having high odds.

#24 June 12th, 2020, 2:37 PM

Originally Posted by LJG23

Honestly it's just something I heard Jonathan Little say in one of his recent webinars. If I can find it again I will send you the link. Though, I'm not sure it's something you can Google and get an accurate answer either.

I like jonathan little as well. he does have some good info and seems to be well updated. although i dont know why you cant find statistics on google related to poker tournament win %. now everything is logged making numbers/statistics readily available. like i said, the numbers i posted are not my own. they are in the poker data base/google.

Originally Posted by LJG23

Consider this. Phil Helmuth has won 15 WSOP bracelets, more than any other player. Yes he's won other events but for this example I'm just considering WSOP events because we know about how many there are each year. He won his first one in 1989 and his latest in 2018. So over thirty years he's only won 15 events. How many do you think he's played? Better yet, how many entries do you think he's had since several events are now reentry/rebuy?

first of all, the wsop in 1989 had a 178 player pool eventually rising to over 8500 entries in 2019. how can you formulate a hypothesis on such vast number variance? we cant discuss something if you keep moving the goalpost to fit your narrative. it would be like comparing apples to oranges. as far as wsop is concerned people would be lucky to win it once in a lifetime with todays scheme. imho i dont think its your average tournament to base a formula for winning tournanent % on. not even gonna mention the fact that a great number of pros play here too which makes winning 100 x harder then your average tournament.

Originally Posted by LJG23

I'd also like to add that private games like the cards chat freerolls kind of fall into the better players/better structure category. It's been a while since I played in one but the two level late reg they had and player pools of about 150 makes it easier for the better players to win way more often than they would in other freerolls and micro stakes games open to the public.

Concerning this, i believe the more smaller the pool of players is, the less concrete stats we can find online in relation to tournament wins within the poker community. i believe thats why google and the poker data base focuses at or around 1000 player tournaments. private games i guess are private as the name suggests so numbers might not be readily available there, and besides that how many are around 1000 players? not many right?
all in all i believe the stats given to us. i cant vouche all stats online stats are 100% correct, but then again we must rely on some objective source in order to reach a more credible conclusion?

#25 June 12th, 2020, 4:11 PM

lately poker is more for luck than for strategy I usually play MTT micro limits that get used to the bads so when I play a regular tournament and suddenly take a slice with a pair smaller than mine and find that variance is not bad . I know you have nothing to do with your question anymore and something similar, like in a cash game, if you are not aggressive until the end of a hand that you enter the deck will draw you in and straighten you out.

#26 June 12th, 2020, 4:14 PM

I play better in tournament than cash games. I always loss my tournament winnings in cash games.

#27 June 12th, 2020, 6:04 PM

I don't like cash game but instead i like to plays mtts or sngs Tournament vs Cash

#28 June 12th, 2020, 7:46 PM

Good question
In cash game you have option for fast cash,and you can exut whenever you want.
But in tourney game you play for reward,bigger rewards and you there is a big diggerente betwen this two types of games.

#29 June 13th, 2020, 11:05 PM

Cash game is more technical than tournament.
Because, much luck is necessary on tounament.

#30 June 14th, 2020, 12:40 AM

I never liked cash, I feel that the one who has more money is more favored by that game, however tournaments you ran out of chips and left, that's why I play tournaments

#31 June 14th, 2020, 12:47 AM

So this is the best link I could find regarding our debate.

http://www.pokerology.com/articles/p...lume-variance/

These numbers show that you were closer to being right than I was, but I would also like to point out couple things. First they are counting tournaments of at least 180 people. This would include 180 man sngs I would think and there are some absolute crushers in this format. Second the "amateur" stats are based on an average buy in of $30. This is not micros, which is what was being talked about in the Jonathan Little webinar I referenced.

The point I guess I was trying to make is that the average person here should not be trying to compare their stats to those they see of the top tournament professionals. Especially if your playing micro stakes. Would just lead to heart ache and frustration for someone that doesn't understand the true volatility of variance at those levels.

Originally Posted by celtics33

I like jonathan little as well. he does have some good info and seems to be well updated. although i dont know why you cant find statistics on google related to poker tournament win %. now everything is logged making numbers/statistics readily available. like i said, the numbers i posted are not my own. they are in the poker data base/google.

first of all, the wsop in 1989 had a 178 player pool eventually rising to over 8500 entries in 2019. how can you formulate a hypothesis on such vast number variance? we cant discuss something if you keep moving the goalpost to fit your narrative. it would be like comparing apples to oranges. as far as wsop is concerned people would be lucky to win it once in a lifetime with todays scheme. imho i dont think its your average tournament to base a formula for winning tournanent % on. not even gonna mention the fact that a great number of pros play here too which makes winning 100 x harder then your average tournament.

Concerning this, i believe the more smaller the pool of players is, the less concrete stats we can find online in relation to tournament wins within the poker community. i believe thats why google and the poker data base focuses at or around 1000 player tournaments. private games i guess are private as the name suggests so numbers might not be readily available there, and besides that how many are around 1000 players? not many right?
all in all i believe the stats given to us. i cant vouche all stats online stats are 100% correct, but then again we must rely on some objective source in order to reach a more credible conclusion?

#32 June 14th, 2020, 5:57 PM

My preference is for MTT; I do not like cash games. Everyone chooses his poker)

#33 June 14th, 2020, 6:02 PM

For it is much better to play tournaments, if I really prefer the seats only

#34 June 24th, 2020, 1:22 PM

Originally Posted by Patchco89

I'm having a hard time feeling like I'm playing poker when I play tournaments vs when I play cash games. I know they are different beasts, but sometimes I find it so hard to apply any strategy to the tournaments because it's just an all-in fest. Because of that, I play fairly tight, but I still end up losing too many chips just trying to see a flop with a good hand (if it doesn't hit, I'm screwed).

Is this normal? Is it because I'm playing lower stakes?

It's not always like this. I've had fun and made a few final tables, but most of the time it seems to be how I described above.

Are there any good resources I should check out in regards to how to play tournaments vs cash games?

in micro stakes or low, you need to be pacient, because have a lot of donks. A lot of players want to see the flop. Example, your AK suited need to be play carefully, because probably one donk will hit some hand on the flop...

#35 June 24th, 2020, 6:31 PM

in tournaments you can play safely, even if you lose a small amount, but in cash games you can lose the whole bank

#36 June 24th, 2020, 6:39 PM

Originally Posted by Patchco89

I'm having a hard time feeling like I'm playing poker when I play tournaments vs when I play cash games. I know they are different beasts, but sometimes I find it so hard to apply any strategy to the tournaments because it's just an all-in fest. Because of that, I play fairly tight, but I still end up losing too many chips just trying to see a flop with a good hand (if it doesn't hit, I'm screwed).

Is this normal? Is it because I'm playing lower stakes?

It's not always like this. I've had fun and made a few final tables, but most of the time it seems to be how I described above.

Are there any good resources I should check out in regards to how to play tournaments vs cash games?

I have the opossite problem. A play tournaments where I play mostly the good hands, and I go all in several times. In cash games I always lose money, it's like I play another game, that's why I don't play cash games for the moment.

#37 June 24th, 2020, 6:46 PM

Keep playing cash games if you feel more comfortable in them.
Use freerolls to develop your playing style against players that
often shove pre-flop.

Depending on how much time you want to invest i would recommend to
search here on the forum, use other online resources ( I bet there are a bunch of videos on youtube about this) or read a good poker book. Dan Harringtons "Harrington on Holdem" is focused on MTTs if I am not completely wrong...

#38 June 26th, 2020, 12:39 AM

Tourneys are where its at, I have played cash a few times and just didnt feel it. If I ever get my bankroll up far enough I may try some higher stake tables though.

#39 June 26th, 2020, 12:44 AM

Cash games and tournaments are two different beasts and you have to deal with them accordingly. However, patience in both are essential and you have to implement patience into both and just wait for your opportunity.

#40 June 26th, 2020, 1:55 AM

I play mostly tournaments although I do quite well on the cash tables. I guess it comes down to witch site I'm on. I like tournaments better low buy in huge payout.

#41 June 26th, 2020, 2:12 AM

The good way to understand deeply the difference between tournament and cash is reading books. They will describe clearly everything about them. In general, in tournaments, you have to play based on your stack, each stage of tournaments, ... Tournaments are variance because you will often be in a short stack and you have to shove your hands. But it doesn't mean there is not a strategy in this case. You can still follow strategies to have a good shove against opponents. It is kind of complex, you should read books or watch videos to understand more.

#42 June 26th, 2020, 2:28 AM

It absolutely is because of lower stakes that you're having your particular experience. In more serious tournaments people aren't so quick to go all in. Well, the low stakes and the fact that rebuys (fluffed as re-entries but I'm calling them what they actually are,) are so rampant online. Sit and Gos tend to curb that kind of thing better than MTTs though, maybe try those.

#43 June 26th, 2020, 3:16 AM

I agree with those who prefer Sit&Go.

The "all-in" problem with tournament is also present in Cash Games. There is always someone who will not care for his money and force you All-In.

In Sit&Go sometimes you must wait for the first 10% players to go out with their all-in... after, it is a lot more "normal"... until the final table.

#44 July 2nd, 2020, 1:08 PM

Prefer tourneys, but I play cash now and then, cash with friends is always fun!

#45 July 2nd, 2020, 1:19 PM

I play mostly tournaments. I enjoy playing against different players from other countries.

#46 July 2nd, 2020, 10:56 PM

Each hand is always played differently.

Consistency is the key to success, but in cash tournaments you will always find one with more experienced people. There are techniques to draw a probability of some winning hand.

There must also be a little luck. In tournaments there are people who bet very aggressively and that is when many chips are lost at the beginning, it is recommended to play few hands, thus giving way to the way each player plays.

There are guides to improve I hope they are of your help.

#47 July 2nd, 2020, 11:08 PM

I prefer tourneys but cash is okay sometimes

#48 July 3rd, 2020, 6:24 AM

you need to choose one thing, because there are strategies in the tournament and cash game, as well as a bankroll plays a big role. in the tournament since there is no rake you can open more hands, and in the cash game, respectively, less because they remove the rake

#49 July 3rd, 2020, 6:57 AM

Limit level shows you players level. So i think it should be because of low limits. For example freerolls. Have you tried to play it before? People call your QQ and 4bet with K5s and when flop is KJT they are ready to all-in with pair of king. And when they lose they think you are f.king lucky. Unfortunately some of them get prizes and think they should play like this.

#50 July 3rd, 2020, 7:15 AM

Originally Posted by Patchco89

I'm having a hard time feeling like I'm playing poker when I play tournaments vs when I play cash games. I know they are different beasts, but sometimes I find it so hard to apply any strategy to the tournaments because it's just an all-in fest. Because of that, I play fairly tight, but I still end up losing too many chips just trying to see a flop with a good hand (if it doesn't hit, I'm screwed).

Is this normal? Is it because I'm playing lower stakes?

It's not always like this. I've had fun and made a few final tables, but most of the time it seems to be how I described above.

Are there any good resources I should check out in regards to how to play tournaments vs cash games?

I prefer tourneys as like to gamble a bit to much fer cash games as fer me its all about the fun

Tournament vs Cash

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