Tom Durrrr Dwan??

I know this is going to upset alot of people but im going to say it. I think Tom is just very very very lucky. been watching some highstakes poker and a few tourneys and wow the kid can bluff oh yeah. From what i see when he shows down though. he gets really fn lucky. Anyone elses thoughts?

You havent watched enough of him, try find his HU match vs Patrik Antonius at the aussie millions, i think 2009, he runs terribly and makes some amazing lay downs and calls despite run bad.

oh yeah ill google that now thanks. im doing some research on diffrent players and looking at diffrent styles

Ducky7 said:

You havent watched enough of him, try find his HU match vs Patrik Antonius at the aussie millions, i think 2009, he runs terribly and makes some amazing lay downs and calls despite run bad.

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Legit one of the most impressive things I've ever seen poker wise

Not trying to derail the thread at all but I'm curious as to what happened to most FT pros ever since the BF incident and the whole FT scandal, and on that same note, what happened to Chris Ferguson and Howard Leaderer (I hope that's how the last names are spelt), by happened I mean did they get caught, is it proven that they actually did it, or were the master minds behind the whole ordeal?

Now back to Dwan that man is a beast, I mean I've seen his bluffs and it is a thing of magic

Tom makes really good reads and can play any two cards knowing that he can make the villain fold. Sure he gets the occasional durrrivered, but that's exactly why other people lose money to him. Nobody believes he has it!

cuz he looks scared all the time lol

A lot of the players that he's made moves/bluffs on (that's been televised), are other pros whom he's had a countless number of hands with. That's a huge part of what goes into making any successful bluff.

They don't often air the many normal (boring) hands where he's playing completely straight forward alongside everyone else.

Ducky7 said:

You havent watched enough of him, try find his HU match vs Patrik Antonius at the aussie millions, i think 2009, he runs terribly and makes some amazing lay downs and calls despite run bad.

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Yeah, ^ this. I don't think I've ever watched someone lose a big sum of money like that and yet still found myself saying "damn he's a great player" at the end.

Or just as good, try to find some footage of the live Durrrr HU challenge played a few years back. The match against Ziigmund in particular was super-impressive, even though it wasn't the one where he won the most money. He's got seriously, seriously good poker instincts.

He may look lucky and he may bluff a lot but he is good enough to win with bluffs, he is a poker genius, to me he is in any case.
As Oz says he has serious poker instincts.

I've seen quite alot of footage of Dwan. And at first I was very slow to give him props, but after following him for a few years, I think the kid's legit. At first I was skeptical bc til a few years back ALL his success was online. There are alot of online hold em wizards out there, and sometimes the success doesn't carry over to the live arena. His has. From what I hear, he's crushing the cash games in Macau right now. And usually nosebleed stakes live games are mixed games, so to be winning, he must be pretty versatile.

When he started playing live events, there was alot of hype surrounding him. Maybe he was a tad overrated. But I think over time he has come to live up to, and surpass the hype.

And the scary thing is that he's still young and developing his game. I have a feeling he's gonna be a monster. He's sort of one of the first guys to take all that knowledge the young kids get from playing millions of hands online, and making it translate live.

Scarily enough, the one place he hasn't had much success is in live tourneys. Once he figures out how to beat them consistently (and there's little doubt he will) we might be uttering his name in the same breath as Ivey, Brunson, etc...Not saying he's there YET but it isn't that much of a stretch.

He does get lucky but what person succeds at poker without luck. Not only the hu at the aussies but Ive found other videos and watched shows where he plays very solid poker

best player ever

funkywhiteboy78 said:

At first I was skeptical bc til a few years back ALL his success was online. There are alot of online hold em wizards out there, and sometimes the success doesn't carry over to the live arena. His has. From what I hear, he's crushing the cash games in Macau right now. And usually nosebleed stakes live games are mixed games, so to be winning, he must be pretty versatile.

Scarily enough, the one place he hasn't had much success is in live tourneys. Once he figures out how to beat them consistently (and there's little doubt he will) we might be uttering his name in the same breath as Ivey, Brunson, etc...Not saying he's there YET but it isn't that much of a stretch.

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FWIW I think most of the nosebleed Macau games are against rich degenerates who don't really know how to play poker - certainly when those games started out, Dwan confirmed they were playing with rules like everybody had to turn their cards face up at the end of the hand regardless of the outcome. Apparently they were doing that and he (along with Ivey etc) were still winning...

As for live tournaments, I think it's mostly a matter of him not bothering to enter very many. When you consider the stakes he plays for in cash games, the tournament grind probably isn't that interesting to him unless he's got serious action on side bets (see his run at the wsop a couple of years back when he came second in a huge-field NLHE event).

rodgbaby said:

I know this is going to upset alot of people but im going to say it. I think Tom is just very very very lucky. been watching some highstakes poker and a few tourneys and wow the kid can bluff oh yeah. From what i see when he shows down though. he gets really fn lucky. Anyone elses thoughts?

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Thoughts? Yup. You don't know what you're talking about.

Here's a question for ya: Whose opinion would you put more faith in (as far as Tom Dwann being a great player)... your own, some anonymous peeps on CC poker forum, or some of the top players in the world? Because don't ya think it's odd that you think Tom's just f'n lucky but he can like bluff & sheeite real goodzz 'but' players like Ivey, Antonius, Doyle, Helmuth, etc. etc. etc.(add a few hundred more names here) all consider him to be one of the very best!
Kinda strange.... no?

The question that usually comes to my mind is why people feel the need to denigrate players who have achieved far more than most of us ever more. If I agree - which I don't - that Dwan is nothing more than a luckbox, what's in it for me? If I mentally allocate him a skill level that I regard as within my reach (i.e. thinking "I can be as good as him") or maybe even that I have reached ("I am as good as him"), does it change my actual skill level? Not one iota.

And I also can't help but wonder, only part-jokingly, if the original post belongs in the "stupid things players say" thread.

While some of the nay-sayers are putting this kid down about him bluffing and getting "lucky" , lets not forget that the big homie, Doyle "Texas Dolly" Brunson, won 2 WSOP titles with 10-2o, didn't he? And nobody is calling him lucky. Nobody would dare. The best of the best play at a level where the cards aren't as big of a factor as they are for some of us. I know I couldn't pull off a bluff w 10-2. I don't have the testicular fortitude....lol.

If you don't like the Doyle Brunson example, lets not forget that Phil Ivey has been catching cards all summer at the WSOP. Does the luck make him any less of a beast at the tables? Certainly not.

Durrr got alot of points with me when he offered to give his FT winnings back. That kid's not a chump.

dwan?

massive bankroll swings and has needed loans multiple times. not impressed.

Arjonius, I think you're right on.

Lirounder, as well as several other posters on here (OP), I'm pretty sure there's little room for your opinion on dwans skill level, to be blunt. I can't post on a nuclear engineering forum about who I think isn't really as smart as the others...I don't have a clue. I'm making an assumption that none of you are solid, winning regs that really understand the game and can post an impressive results graph on here (at any level higher than say 10nl). I'm pretty safe with this assumption because most of said winning regs have done a lot of work, studied a lot, read a lot on 2p2 (or books or wherever), on some advanced theories from people who will almost unanymously say they find durrr challenging to play against.

He crushed every level online all the way up, made millions @ age 21. His game transitioned very well live..he does well against the top tables in the world, over a huge sample.

Watching a hand where his river hit and using that to call him a lucky player...lol. that's variance, that comes around..if you're not good, you won't survive. Over a big enough. Sample (which durr def has)...how much you've won or lost is a good indication of how good you are as a player

im a live player. most online players live get destroyed.

i will not base my evaluation of dwan on his online performance, a large part of which was on full scam, i mean full tilt poker, a ponzi scheme.

he HAS lost enormous amounts of money and HAS needed loans from time to time, i consider bankroll management extremely important, therefore i am not impressed.

to be frank, if i was asked to stake any player i want, dwan would not be the guy i choose.

Im not a fan, i do this for money live, if you think hes great, thats awesome. i cant wait until you sit at one of my tables at foxwoods. you retards have paid off my mortgage since black friday and put more bling around my girls neck than whats in Jay Zs jewelry box.

lol

in fact, if we're talking alive or dead, dwan doesnt even crack my top ten

Lol I don't particularly obsess w dwan- just agree he's top 20..or top 50? Lol. Aka between very good and great~ don't give a f where specifically u rank him.

And lolll. I frequent foxwoods...just don't hate if I end up walking out with your girl (w all that bling on er)

I don't play kiddy tbls (1/2) tho...

LIR0under said:

im a live player. most online players live get destroyed.

i will not base my evaluation of dwan on his online performance, a large part of which was on full scam, i mean full tilt poker, a ponzi scheme.

he HAS lost enormous amounts of money and HAS needed loans from time to time, i consider bankroll management extremely important, therefore i am not impressed.

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68 more & you can apply to play in the freerolls. GL!