Tipping Dealers

F

fxdeuce

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Total posts
9
Chips
0
Why should you tip a poker dealer? After all, that dealer provided you the same service as all the other players and really functions as nothing more than a random number generator. You made all the decisions and risked your money to win that pot. Some poker pros justify lowballing or stiffing dealers by saying that it cuts into their hourly rate. Those same pros are the first to complain, sometimes rudely, when the dealer makes a mistake.
I dealt for 8 years at a downtown Vegas casino and 3 WSOPs after that. At best I am an average dealer and you won't be seeing me on ESPN unless I'm real unlucky. I can tell you what makes a good dealer and the kind of treatment dealers recieve whether good or bad. Casino dealers have to cope with drunks and people losing money they shouldn't have bet in the first place, usually both at the same time. We also have to deal with superstition, as more than a few blame the dealer when losing. gambling and alcohol seems to bring out the worst behavior, especially both at the same time.
Unless you've never played poker in a casino you've seen what I am talking about. You probably also know that dealers work for minimum wage plus tips. You might not know that casinos rarely hire full time dealers anymore, they've even regressed former full timers to extra board (part time). By making dealers work less than 32 hours per week casinos can avoid paying benefits and dispose of them arbitrarily if they so choose.
If you've ever played in the wsop you may have noticed a wide disparity in the quality of dealers. They have to hire over 300 brand new dealers every year because they lose 20-30% in the first 2 weeks and a lot of experienced dealers decline to come back. On the social media sites you will find a lot of complaints about dealer mistakes from both the pros and amateurs.
You would think that dealing the premier event in all of gambling, not just poker, would attract so many experienced dealers to return that it would be hard for people that have never even dealt a casino poker game to get the job. Let me tell you two big reasons why so many dealers don't come back.
The tokes we recieve for dealing tournaments come from a small percentage taken from the entry fee and whatever the winners leave for tips from their winnings. Every year the tokes from tournament downs (every half hour at table change counts as a down) have been going down. A lot of dealers who come from out of town don't think it's worth coming back for this reason and the second.
Most dealers HATE HATE HATE dealing the live cash games. The verbal abuse and disrespect causes most dealers to avoid dealing live games if at all possible. Tokes come into play here too. Imagine dealing a $150-300 7 Card Stud game and walking away from that down with less than $5 in tokes after dealing perfect hands and pushing pots worth thousands. How do you think it feels when some big time poker pro throws you a dollar after pushing him a pot with stacks of black chips and hundred dollar bills? And you know what, mot dealers are lucky to get that much in the high stakes games. The lower stake games is where you make the most as a dealer. Let put it in a nutshell for you; dealers call the subsection where you find all the high stakes games the Snake Pit!
GIVEN: you want professional dealers at your table and knowing that casinos only pay minimum wage while expecting you the player to tip the dealer enough to actually make a living, so let me ask a question. Do you expect professional level performance from a dealer only making minimun wage?
GIVEN: poker dealers recieve a lot of player abuse and every dealer makes mistakes just like everybody else in their jobs. So, would you deal poker for minimum wage only?
I have a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. If you have the patience to read even more in this long article you will see what I'm talking about.
I was playing a 1-2 no-limit hold-em game at the Golden Nugget. The WSOP was going at the RIO at the time. On my right was an older guy, drunk and with a heavy Scottish accent. He was in seat 2 and playing under the gun for this particular hand. The small blind checked on the river card and it was check around, including the drunk, until seat 7 made a big bet. When it came time for the drunk to act he mumbled something incomprehensible and angrily threw his cards face up to the top of the flop. Note, that he didn't physically call the bet.
The dealer grabbed the cards and was in the process of mucking the hand when the drunk started screaming that he had called. After all the screaming and yelling the floorman came over and allowed the drunk to get his hand back. Of course the drunk lost he hand anyway. The dealer was professional throughout the whole ordeal, she kept her mouth shut and let her boss fix the problem.
But the worst was yet to come. After the floorman left and the next hand was being dealt a player in seat 5 comes out and spews this gem; "I deal the World Series and if a dealer would have made that mistake there she would have been sent home". I still get angry when I remember that and how many things are so wrong about what this moron said.
First of all, a dealer NEVER criticizes another dealer at the table. Neither does that dealer abuse another dealer on the job. If you as a dealer have a problem with another dealer you take it the card room manager. If you have a problem that requires the flloorman to come over and fix, then you do it politely and professionally. Believe it or not some of the worst abusers are other dealers.
Since that mistake was made by the player and not the dealer she wouldn't even have been written up, much less get sent home. If anyone made a mistake it was the floorman for not killing the drunks hand.
I can tell you that this guy who shot his mouth off was a first time dealer at the WSOP and I seriously doubt he ever worked a regular job in a cardroom. Experienced dealers know that because of the high number of rookie dealers it's not that big a deal to work the WSOP and you look like an idiot bragging about it. At least that's true in Vegas.
So again:
Do you want a pro dealing your poker game or a minimum wage dweeb?
Would you deal poker for minimum wage?
If you don't want to tip do you deserve a professional dealer?
See you at the 2014 world series of poker!
 
BluffMeAllIn

BluffMeAllIn

4evrInmyheart RIP xoxo :(
Silver Level
Joined
May 2, 2009
Total posts
11,324
Chips
0
Someone might actually read it now........bit of spacing in a wall of text can go a long way.

Why should you tip a poker dealer? After all, that dealer provided you the same service as all the other players and really functions as nothing more than a random number generator. You made all the decisions and risked your money to win that pot. Some poker pros justify lowballing or stiffing dealers by saying that it cuts into their hourly rate. Those same pros are the first to complain, sometimes rudely, when the dealer makes a mistake.


I dealt for 8 years at a downtown Vegas casino and 3 WSOPs after that. At best I am an average dealer and you won't be seeing me on ESPN unless I'm real unlucky. I can tell you what makes a good dealer and the kind of treatment dealers recieve whether good or bad. Casino dealers have to cope with drunks and people losing money they shouldn't have bet in the first place, usually both at the same time. We also have to deal with superstition, as more than a few blame the dealer when losing. Gambling and alcohol seems to bring out the worst behavior, especially both at the same time.
Unless you've never played poker in a casino you've seen what I am talking about. You probably also know that dealers work for minimum wage plus tips. You might not know that casinos rarely hire full time dealers anymore, they've even regressed former full timers to extra board (part time). By making dealers work less than 32 hours per week casinos can avoid paying benefits and dispose of them arbitrarily if they so choose.


If you've ever played in the WSOP you may have noticed a wide disparity in the quality of dealers. They have to hire over 300 brand new dealers every year because they lose 20-30% in the first 2 weeks and a lot of experienced dealers decline to come back. On the social media sites you will find a lot of complaints about dealer mistakes from both the pros and amateurs.


You would think that dealing the premier event in all of gambling, not just poker, would attract so many experienced dealers to return that it would be hard for people that have never even dealt a casino poker game to get the job. Let me tell you two big reasons why so many dealers don't come back.
The tokes we recieve for dealing tournaments come from a small percentage taken from the entry fee and whatever the winners leave for tips from their winnings. Every year the tokes from tournament downs (every half hour at table change counts as a down) have been going down. A lot of dealers who come from out of town don't think it's worth coming back for this reason and the second.


Most dealers HATE HATE HATE dealing the live cash games. The verbal abuse and disrespect causes most dealers to avoid dealing live games if at all possible. Tokes come into play here too. Imagine dealing a $150-300 7 Card Stud game and walking away from that down with less than $5 in tokes after dealing perfect hands and pushing pots worth thousands. How do you think it feels when some big time poker pro throws you a dollar after pushing him a pot with stacks of black chips and hundred dollar bills? And you know what, mot dealers are lucky to get that much in the high stakes games. The lower stake games is where you make the most as a dealer. Let put it in a nutshell for you; dealers call the subsection where you find all the high stakes games the Snake Pit!


GIVEN: you want professional dealers at your table and knowing that casinos only pay minimum wage while expecting you the player to tip the dealer enough to actually make a living, so let me ask a question. Do you expect professional level performance from a dealer only making minimun wage?

GIVEN: poker dealers recieve a lot of player abuse and every dealer makes mistakes just like everybody else in their jobs. So, would you deal poker for minimum wage only?


I have a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. If you have the patience to read even more in this long article you will see what I'm talking about.
I was playing a 1-2 no-limit hold-em game at the Golden Nugget. The WSOP was going at the RIO at the time. On my right was an older guy, drunk and with a heavy Scottish accent. He was in seat 2 and playing under the gun for this particular hand. The small blind checked on the river card and it was check around, including the drunk, until seat 7 made a big bet. When it came time for the drunk to act he mumbled something incomprehensible and angrily threw his cards face up to the top of the flop. Note, that he didn't physically call the bet.


The dealer grabbed the cards and was in the process of mucking the hand when the drunk started screaming that he had called. After all the screaming and yelling the floorman came over and allowed the drunk to get his hand back. Of course the drunk lost he hand anyway. The dealer was professional throughout the whole ordeal, she kept her mouth shut and let her boss fix the problem.


But the worst was yet to come. After the floorman left and the next hand was being dealt a player in seat 5 comes out and spews this gem; "I deal the World Series and if a dealer would have made that mistake there she would have been sent home". I still get angry when I remember that and how many things are so wrong about what this moron said.


First of all, a dealer NEVER criticizes another dealer at the table. Neither does that dealer abuse another dealer on the job. If you as a dealer have a problem with another dealer you take it the card room manager. If you have a problem that requires the flloorman to come over and fix, then you do it politely and professionally. Believe it or not some of the worst abusers are other dealers.


Since that mistake was made by the player and not the dealer she wouldn't even have been written up, much less get sent home. If anyone made a mistake it was the floorman for not killing the drunks hand.


I can tell you that this guy who shot his mouth off was a first time dealer at the WSOP and I seriously doubt he ever worked a regular job in a cardroom. Experienced dealers know that because of the high number of rookie dealers it's not that big a deal to work the WSOP and you look like an idiot bragging about it. At least that's true in Vegas.

So again:
Do you want a pro dealing your poker game or a minimum wage dweeb?

Would you deal poker for minimum wage?

If you don't want to tip do you deserve a professional dealer?

See you at the 2014 World Series of Poker!
 
magicius

magicius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Total posts
1,822
Chips
0
Save me jebus... Waaaall of text but.
I think its a dumb question...
Why you tip waiter?
Why you tip bartender?
Why you tip taxi driver?
Why you tip guy on petrol station?
If you are not tiping them than forget it...

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk
 
steffdbird

steffdbird

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Total posts
702
Chips
0
..

Its more about etiquette I think, as you would any other profession including as mentioned above taxi drivers, waiters, petrol attendants and many other professions. I always tip the above as its ''nice to be nice'' if some guy gives you a good service and is good at his/her job then why wouldn't anyone give a token of thier appreciation?


steff
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jazzaxe

jazzaxe

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Total posts
1,050
Awards
1
Chips
0
That was a long story, but it was a good story. Those casino owners are cheap bandits when it comes to their employees. Thanks
 
wanderingthehall

wanderingthehall

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Total posts
259
Chips
0
I'm not a dealer, but I am from Vegas, so of course I have plenty of friends in tip based service industry jobs there. Those tips are their livelihood. I don't consider myself a big tipper, but I'm a consistent tipper. And it makes a difference. Especially if you frequent the same casinos on a regular basis, taking care of your dealer can pay for itself in other ways. Dealers will make sure to tell you about promotions, if you're having issues with another player they will be much more likely to take your side, and poker room managers and dealers occasionally share information about who the fish are there or make sure to seat you at a lucrative table, etc. They don't do it while dealing, but when they're on break or if you run into them actually playing a game. I can't imaging playing a high stakes game and not throwing the dealer something. I feel bad when I forget to tip at the 3/6 game!!
 
F

fxdeuce

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Total posts
9
Chips
0
Sorry about the spacing, I wrote it in Word and pasted it in. I'll do better next time.
Thanks for your comments.
 
D

dasher

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Total posts
99
Chips
0
I live in Reno and occasionally play in the 1-2 games at the Peppermill.

What I see is that the dealer gets a buck from almost every pot except the folded blinds. Even fairly small pots (which are the ones I tend to skip). For really big pots they might get five.

I've only seen two drunks in the poker room and one of them was escorted out when he started to make a scene. It's a quiet room over all.

The dealers do seem to be all part-timers.
 
dealio96

dealio96

The LAG Monkeys
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Total posts
7,960
Awards
5
Chips
0
so let me ask a question. Do you expect professional level performance from a dealer only making minimun wage?

This is why some casinos split tips evenly amongst the dealers, and truthfully, if you're not dealing up to par, I don't feel you deserve the same amount in tips as all of the other top notch dealers that are actually taking their job seriously, not making multiple mistakes, and still manage to keep a smile on their face. This is also why a lot of the good dealers are leaving town because they're getting paid the same amount as some average joe, newb dealer.

Remember we are customers in the establishment that you work for. You are here to please us and make us happy, not for us to make you rich. If you don't like it, seek out a new profession.
 
Last edited:
F

fxdeuce

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Total posts
9
Chips
0
I've never heard of a poker room where the dealers pool their tips, but then I've only played in the West. The pit dealers always pool their tips, which is a whole other debate.
I'd also like to say that I appreciate players who still tip a buck on a small pot and that a dealer should only make what he deserves. I am just trying to explain why there are so many rookie dealers at the WSOP and why some experienced dealers don't want to come back. It's the regular guys like in here that makes the job worthwhile,
If it seems like I'm whining that was not my intent, I don't have to deal the WSOP and I come back because I enjoy it......it would be nice to make a bit of change along the way though.
 
B

bears6to15

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Total posts
10
Chips
0
I said can I get an amen nice point
 
J

joe777

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 3, 2014
Total posts
2,694
Chips
0
Its nice to tip people but you got to be sincere about it.Anyway it was very interesting and long read.
 
J

JLuv81

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Total posts
61
Chips
0
You tip people in the service industry because it encourages employees to provide exceptional service. It's not designed by cheap employers trying to get customers to subsidize their employees wages, it simply makes people want to work harder. I would not wait tables for an flat hourly wage nor would I like to be served by someone who is because what incentive do they have to be nice/accurate/accomodating? They get a flat $9/hr what do they care right?

In poker I tip for the same reason, good service. I will not tip a dealer who makes a lot of mistakes, has a bad disposition, or doesn't say thank you. How can you reinforce good behavior if there is no incentive. Keeping your job is not a valid enough reason.
 
MrPokerVerse

MrPokerVerse

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Total posts
2,825
Awards
2
Chips
57
You tip people in the service industry because it encourages employees to provide exceptional service. It's not designed by cheap employers trying to get customers to subsidize their employees wages, it simply makes people want to work harder. I would not wait tables for an flat hourly wage nor would I like to be served by someone who is because what incentive do they have to be nice/accurate/accomodating? They get a flat $9/hr what do they care right?

In poker I tip for the same reason, good service. I will not tip a dealer who makes a lot of mistakes, has a bad disposition, or doesn't say thank you. How can you reinforce good behavior if there is no incentive. Keeping your job is not a valid enough reason.

Well said, I see very few people not tipping when you win a pot. I'm not the biggest tipper but do drop something for service well received.
 
Debi

Debi

Forum Admin
Administrator
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Total posts
74,638
Awards
20
Chips
1,331
You tip people in the service industry because it encourages employees to provide exceptional service. It's not designed by cheap employers trying to get customers to subsidize their employees wages, it simply makes people want to work harder. I would not wait tables for an flat hourly wage nor would I like to be served by someone who is because what incentive do they have to be nice/accurate/accomodating? They get a flat $9/hr what do they care right?

In poker I tip for the same reason, good service. I will not tip a dealer who makes a lot of mistakes, has a bad disposition, or doesn't say thank you. How can you reinforce good behavior if there is no incentive. Keeping your job is not a valid enough reason.

Bolded is simply not true.

However I still tip.
 
arizoney

arizoney

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Total posts
386
Awards
1
Chips
1
well welcome to the real world the fact that minimum wage workers dont work or are even offered full time jobs has a number of reasons. some of those are to get around laws and standards set forth by the government. one of the main reasons for part time workers it because of the cost of benefits that must be given to full time employment. well what can you do i imagine theres a few things that can be done unionize look for full time employment with benefits. step up change it for its not only dealers at a poker table dealing with this. there is other businesses all across the country doing this that pay only minimum wage. i bet that 80% minimum wage workers in the country are part time i wonder what the real number is? i can see dealing cash games would be better than tourneys. for theres an art working for tips and tourneys dont offer a good opportunity for the players to tip which cash games do because of cash in hand. myself when i play cash games i tip and i notice that some people dont i have wondered why. oh i can see the rake cost going up on tourneys now and i feel they take too much already.
 
J

JLuv81

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Total posts
61
Chips
0
Bolded is simply not true.

However I still tip.

I can see how there are a large amount of people who feel the way you do.

I believe it's more of a bonus for employers than the sole reason for the practice of tipping. If you put yourself in the restaurant/hotel owners shoes why would you pay an employee a flat $12/hr for instance? They will be exemplary employees for the first 3 months and then start to blah out because hey, It's an easy paycheck and you don't have a reason to go above and beyond. That attitude ruins the customer experience which in turn affects profits.

What's the most common thing you read when you look at hotel or restaurant reviews? Something along the lines of "The service was excellent!" or "The service was terrible." That's what keeps people going back and what attracts new business.

Obv my opinion but It's based on countless years in management.
 
Debi

Debi

Forum Admin
Administrator
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Total posts
74,638
Awards
20
Chips
1,331
I can see how there are a large amount of people who feel the way you do.

I believe it's more of a bonus for employers than the sole reason for the practice of tipping. If you put yourself in the restaurant/hotel owners shoes why would you pay an employee a flat $12/hr for instance? They will be exemplary employees for the first 3 months and then start to blah out because hey, It's an easy paycheck and you don't have a reason to go above and beyond. That attitude ruins the customer experience which in turn affects profits.

What's the most common thing you read when you look at hotel or restaurant reviews? Something along the lines of "The service was excellent!" or "The service was terrible." That's what keeps people going back and what attracts new business.

Obv my opinion but It's based on countless years in management.

Yes - why would you when you can pay them about $2.50 an hour and your customers can pay them the rest? ;)
 
C

Chemist

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 17, 2009
Total posts
1,480
Chips
0
I can see how there are a large amount of people who feel the way you do.

I believe it's more of a bonus for employers than the sole reason for the practice of tipping. If you put yourself in the restaurant/hotel owners shoes why would you pay an employee a flat $12/hr for instance? They will be exemplary employees for the first 3 months and then start to blah out because hey, It's an easy paycheck and you don't have a reason to go above and beyond. That attitude ruins the customer experience which in turn affects profits.

What's the most common thing you read when you look at hotel or restaurant reviews? Something along the lines of "The service was excellent!" or "The service was terrible." That's what keeps people going back and what attracts new business.

Obv my opinion but It's based on countless years in management.


And this is the problem with poor management.
(Not you personally, but in Every place).

There should be a difference in wages.
Going to an expensive Hotel or Restaurant and perhaps even Casino you should be able to expect better service.

If the better places differentiated themselves by providing better paid, better experienced staff then there would be more of a profession.

Unfortunately this doesn't happen and everywhere pays minimum wage so they can't attract and choose to retain the best. Which means everywhere just takes what they can get and even expensive places subject there customers to poor staff.

The times when good service are reported are more likely to be in the smaller family businesses than the big overpriced corporates.

The business market also has a detrimental effect with things like mandatory service charges attached to the bill just so that it can be claimed back on expenses.

It would be nice to see a lot of the minimum wage plus tips positions made more professional.

Returning to the subject of Dealers, it is nice to see a professional skilled dealer at work and frustrating to be expected to tip a part time 'whatever' the same amount for chucking a few cards about on his night off.
 
N

nygmen2007

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Total posts
598
Chips
0
As a player the highest I have ever played was 5 10 limit with a kill in omaha, and I am a server, so when I win large pots I tip properly, just like I expect customers if I give them good meal. If I win like 400 or 500 I will tip like 20-30. They are providing me a service. No I do not want an amateur because they will f it up alot more than professional dealer.. I like to take care of people that take care of me...
 
S

slicksam23

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
May 24, 2014
Total posts
27
Chips
0
I look at it like there providing a service such as a waiter and consider myself a good tipper when the person providing the service is doing so well i mean i tip no matter what but if you do your job well and are friendly i tip GREAT we recently tipped a waitress 250$ on a 500$ tab because she provided excellent service to a large party
 
X

xRedhood

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Total posts
30
Chips
0
My rule is, never tip until the end of your playing. Superstitious players do too often thinking that luck is going to bend their way, or that they are paying off for the luck they received. Don't rush to conclusions or give in to impulse, pay off a dealer after a good showing, and not until your done playing. My theory anyway...
 
S

SamBush

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Total posts
94
Chips
0
Because youre a good guy and you would like a tip from the job you dd if you do one that would require one?
 
jtholdm

jtholdm

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Total posts
129
Chips
0
tipping

I think tipping is just a customary appreciation tot eh dealer after you wina nice size pot the casinos pay next to nothing for dealers so they bank on tips. I generally will pay between 1- 5 max depending on the pot size I won
 
P

PLAYFUL1

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Total posts
1,572
Awards
2
Chips
3
I think tipping is just a customary appreciation tot eh dealer after you wina nice size pot the casinos pay next to nothing for dealers so they bank on tips. I generally will pay between 1- 5 max depending on the pot size I won
There are good dealers and bad dealers in a cash game at the casinos but Playful always tips somethong to them , depending on the size of the pot that is won 1 - 5 max seems aboot rite:icon_joke
 
Top