Thoughts about bots

zinzir

zinzir

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Since bots have been receiving a lot of attention lately from players and poker rooms alike, I just wanted to post a few thoughts of mine about playing against bots.
I'll start by summarizing some advantages and disadvantages that bots have vs real players.


Advantages:
1. Immunity to tilt
2. Unparalleled consistency. Bots follow the built in strategy to the T, allowing statistics to achieve power
3. No need for rest, able to play indefinitely


Disadvantages:
1. As complex as the programmer made them and as efficient as the strategy built into the program.Even though the above could theoretically become an advantage in the future, as of right now it's more of a liability.
2. No poker fun for the owner, especially an issue during the times the bot is losing money. Hard to digest in my opinion to wake up in the morning and see that your bot lost money overnight while you didn't even get to play.
3. Decreased adaptability to particular situations not adequately built into the program.
4. Mostly illegal, so owner at risk of losing his entire account if discovered
5. Dependent on very large volume to guarantee a profit, which exponentially increases the risk of raising suspicion and scrutiny by the poker rooms.
6. Cost: on top of the rake, which bots pay just like everyone else, the bot owners have to offset the extra expense of bot purchase and potential upgrades.


Issues common to both bots and human players:
1. Rake: the biggest issue for everyone, continuously and mercilessly removing money from the table.
2. Bad beats
3. Downswings


Personally, I don't mind playing against bots for the following reasons:
  1. Online poker is just a video game that simulates live poker, so playing against a computer program is not that different than playing against another player.
  2. Bots stay away from going all in pre flop without holding a monster hand, hence some fold equity for donks like myself.
  3. In my opinion it is easier overall to play against a bot than against a real player with superior skill than yours. And in my case, most players out there have superior skill than mine :)
 
MishkaZL

MishkaZL

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Overall, I agree with you. I also think I have a better chance of winning when playing against a bot than against a skilled player.
 
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B1BOMBER

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I just feel if anything a bot will test your skill and patients. If you are a good enough player and you can keep your head you should still be able to win!:D:D
 
Sdub2020

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Bots take the fun out of the game. It's just not fun playing bots the whole point is to play vs other players. Hope anyone using bots loses there bankroll.
 
ToNy70929

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For me, this is a new topic and interesting news from you. I never thought that bots could be defeated. Initially, there was no chance against bots. thanks for the information
 
ToNy70929

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I have it for you, as I understand it, as a specialist in bots. Tell me, how to understand online where the bot is playing, and where is the real person? How do you distinguish them, except that you wrote about their shortcomings. A real person may have the same disadvantages.:confused:
 
carmenzu

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...


Personally, I don't mind playing against bots for the following reasons:
  1. Online poker is just a video game that simulates live poker, so playing against a computer program is not that different than playing against another player.
  2. Bots stay away from going all in pre flop without holding a monster hand, hence some fold equity for donks like myself.
  3. In my opinion it is easier overall to play against a bot than against a real player with superior skill than yours. And in my case, most players out there have superior skill than mine :)
I agree with you it is easier to play against bots, a thousand times easier than to play against crazy players who go all in with cards like 32o, 72o 83o .... a bot will never make such a move.
 
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zinzir

zinzir

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I have it for you, as I understand it, as a specialist in bots. Tell me, how to understand online where the bot is playing, and where is the real person? How do you distinguish them, except that you wrote about their shortcomings. A real person may have the same disadvantages.:confused:


Specialist in bots, huh? :) Thanks for the laugh, I am not a bot specialist, I am just a Cardschat member and freeroll player, not even a good one. The above are just some thoughts of mine based on (hopefully) common sense. Please take everything I say with a grain a salt.
With the above disclaimer I will still answer your question (for what it's worth).

I have no idea which one of my opponents is a bot, and I'm not even trying to find out.

In my opinion, trying to identify bots is a waste of time and energy for the average poker player. Besides, I feel that one will be wrong more often than not if trying to guess who the bot is.

As a weak player, bots are the least of my concerns, bots don't try to single out weak players and pray on them, good players do that.

Even more, as a donk making mostly over sized bets, I feel there is some fold equity for me in bot play (due to bots sticking to pot odds by design and not calling raises if the pot odds are denied).

I am not saying that I prefer to play against bots, ideally I would play against real players that are less skilled than myself, but those players are few and far between.
All I'm saying is that I am not scared of the idea of playing against bots, that's all, and I make my moves the same way regardless if the opponents are people or bots.
 
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tatalarata

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I am a software developer, and I create "expert systems". I dont think a customizable bot will beat a good player, it doesnt have the required depth to optimize profit, BUT, a "superbot", like a Chess-Alpha-Zero type of bot, might be a dangerous thing.
 
perrywh

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Specialist in bots, huh? :) Thanks for the laugh, I am not a bot specialist, I am just a Cardschat member and freeroll player, not even a good one. The above are just some thoughts of mine based on (hopefully) common sense. Please take everything I say with a grain a salt.
With the above disclaimer I will still answer your question (for what it's worth).

I have no idea which one of my opponents is a bot, and I'm not even trying to find out.

In my opinion, trying to identify bots is a waste of time and energy for the average poker player. Besides, I feel that one will be wrong more often than not if trying to guess who the bot is.

As a weak player, bots are the least of my concerns, bots don't try to single out weak players and pray on them, good players do that.

Even more, as a donk making mostly over sized bets, I feel there is some fold equity for me in bot play (due to bots sticking to pot odds by design and not calling raises if the pot odds are denied).

I am not saying that I prefer to play against bots, ideally I would play against real players that are less skilled than myself, but those players are few and far between.
All I'm saying is that I am not scared of the idea of playing against bots, that's all, and I make my moves the same way regardless if the opponents are people or bots.

Spoken like a true hustler!
 
balo

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There are bots out there programmed by professionals and they will be playing above average and in the long run win , so in most cases you would not know you're playing against a bot.

Of course they should be banned and sites like pokerstars take this seriously.
 
KristaK

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hi hi :ciao:
i believe bots dishonest, cheating
i lose all the time anyway rather it be against a human
 
Psyanide14

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They definitely should be cracked down against but I honestly would never know whether I was playing against one or not. I play mostly tournaments and I’m assuming bots would only make sense in cash games?

I’m sure there are easier and more legal way to make money but like anything, there will always be people looking to exploit things for money.
 
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TDTODDY

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As long as we play online, there will be bots, and they're just going to get better.
 
zinzir

zinzir

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I play mostly tournaments and I’m assuming bots would only make sense in cash games?

That's an intriguing question.
I wonder if your assumption is mainly based on reality or wishful thinking. I hope someone who looked into it jumps in and gives us some insight.:)
 
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Ricardo_lhp

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I agree with you on the advantage part over bots, now on the disadvantage part I disagree, because there is no disadvantage for those who use boot. Because he will be playing the perfect poker (GTO) so you will never be able to exploit it, so there is no disadvantage but there are advantages to using this type of thing. The only disadvantage is if you are discovered as you will lose your account and also return the money.
 
zinzir

zinzir

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I agree with you on the advantage part over bots, now on the disadvantage part I disagree, because there is no disadvantage for those who use boot. Because he will be playing the perfect poker (GTO) so you will never be able to exploit it, so there is no disadvantage but there are advantages to using this type of thing. The only disadvantage is if you are discovered as you will lose your account and also return the money.


This is a copy/paste from a little Cardschat article I've just found on bots:

Let's take the easy profit guys first. No matter how much their developers might claim to the contrary, no poker bot on the market is capable of beating the game for thousands of dollars. Typically, they might turn over about 5bb/100 hands.
As such, people who use bots purely for their profit-generating ability normally do so to clear bonuses or grind out rakeback deals. After all, why spend hours playing the game when you can simply leave a bot to unlock your deposit match before pocketing the profits and moving to new pastures?

Bots are not as advanced as they are advertised to be (actually, I can't think of anything that is as good as advertised :)).

The link to the little CC article is below, you might want to read the whole thing, it's not a long read at all:

https://www.cardschat.com/poker-bots.php
 
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