is there still money to be made in high stakes online?

ive just been reading forums and browsing as I do and a guy on 2+2 bought up the point that the frequencies of high stakes players especially online are so exact that players are getting closer and closer to optimal play (especially NLH) and the edge is literally so small between high stakes and nose bleed players that money is just being passed around with variance. Obviously this is not the first time this subject has come up but it seems to me like high stakes players are almost sitting around waiting for a fish or business man to show up that never comes. so my question is, is there good money to be made ay high stakes? how much? whats your thoughts on this? thanks cc!

I don't know about high stakes and probably never will, but I sure wish other forms of poker would become more popular across the board. Even if I do still suck at Stud and Stud hi/lo.

My thought from experience is that it is better to manage the bank well as high stakes if perdes, want it back at any cost, and they play very well the players who play such high stakes.

Yes there is still money to be made. When you click on a high stakes table and it shows a player sitting there with $800, I would say there is $800 to be made. Look at pro players in huge tourneys, if there are so many of the optimum players how do you keep seeing the same names at final tables; Daniel negranu, Phil Ivey, Doyle. If there were a bunch of there clones running around they final table frequency would be the same as everyone else. So yes it's possible to be elite, we have evidence of that.

And then there is Gus Hansen with 20 000 000USD downswing. Of course there is plenty money to be made as long as Gus is in the industry.

mamutmamut said:

And then there is Gus Hansen with 20 000 000USD downswing. Of course there is plenty money to be made as long as Gus is in the industry.

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hahaha thats true

redcross said:

Yes there is still money to be made. When you click on a high stakes table and it shows a player sitting there with $800, I would say there is $800 to be made. Look at pro players in huge tourneys, if there are so many of the optimum players how do you keep seeing the same names at final tables; Daniel negranu, Phil Ivey, Doyle. If there were a bunch of there clones running around they final table frequency would be the same as everyone else. So yes it's possible to be elite, we have evidence of that.

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$800, high stakes? of course at a heads up table someone is going to win and someone is going to loose but im talking about the pros at like 200/400 for example if Dwan and isuldur sat down to play heads up together the edge one player would have over the other would be so small. of course one of them will win for that session but long term in holdem is there enough edge to be consistently profitable? or would one be better off dropping down to 5/10 or 10/20 like some pros eg randy lew and just insanely multi table that?

Not really, I think being a rakeback machine is much more profitable, so basically just play millions of hands and it won't even matter then if you are a losing player

runnerx289 said:

ive just been reading forums and browsing as I do and a guy on 2+2 bought up the point that the frequencies of high stakes players especially online are so exact that players are getting closer and closer to optimal play (especially NLH) and the edge is literally so small between high stakes and nose bleed players that money is just being passed around with variance. Obviously this is not the first time this subject has come up but it seems to me like high stakes players are almost sitting around waiting for a fish or business man to show up that never comes. so my question is, is there good money to be made ay high stakes? how much? whats your thoughts on this? thanks cc!

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If there isn't good money to be made then how are the pros (live or online) paying for housing and food an transportation?

-HooDooKoo

Exactly XD allthough id think that you could choose your tables carefully and have an edge..

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Wait for a drunk dude to risk his bankroll.
That's why I love tournaments. Always be fish
No matter the limit.

HooDooKoo said:

If there isn't good money to be made then how are the pros (live or online) paying for housing and food an transportation?

-HooDooKoo

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1 Word...Rakeback and Sponsorship for some

bernotas22 said:

1 Word...Rakeback and Sponsorship for some

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That's more than one word.

And it's true that there is value in both rakeback and sponsorship. But if you think rakeback and sponsorship make up the majority of earnings for most poker pros then you're sadly mistaken. In fact, most poker pros are unsponsored grinders. Do they take advantage of rakeback? Absolutely. Does rakeback make up the majority of their profit? Not even close.

-HooDooKoo

I agree that on the big sites the established regs are getting better and better and yea alot of players do have like a ''fish indicator'' and thats a huge part of trying to find the dead money on stars and full tilt. There are bad sites out there though.

Adventually the games will get so tough that the lower buy ins are more profitable for the higher players and the 100NL regs become the new fish and so forth so forth.

adventually the whole medium buy in field will just become so competitive selection will become key for all of us and we will have to become very patient with table selection to maximise profit.


(this is how I am with live) for example I will play the sit n gos I know get a soft field hardly any online players. and find the fishy cash games late at night at casino.

There's always going to be money to be made in every level online, and for ROW players, the game is still wide open if you have the skill and bankroll for whatever stakes you are pursuing. For us players in the states, most the higher stakes players are just mass tabling full time to take advantage of rakeback and bonuses...at least on the winning network (bcp, acr, etc.) I see the same 20-30 names at the top of the leader boards for "the beast" every month, consistently raking in thousands in bonuses from that, let alone their rakeback, I would imagine they seem to think their "edge" is just playing break even poker to put in a massive number of hands.

there are high stakes fish and plenty of regs with leaks

Lol at bovada the highest stakes are 2000nl but at stars the bb can be dounle that atleast XD

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Originally Posted by mamutmamut
And then there is Gus Hansen with 20 000 000USD downswing. Of course there is plenty money to be made as long as Gus is in the industry.

hahaha thats true