Taking Notes Live, Tracking Stats Live, etc *Help!*

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Syfted

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Computers have given us so many resources. They track how many times we 3bet c-bet check fold raise pre VP$IP PFA etc. Live... none of this.

In fact a pivotal element of live play is deceiving your opponents into thinking you're playing loose when you're really playing tight, or perhaps vice versa...

I figure my notes for live games shouldn't be all that different for notes in online games. You write down key showdowns, try to pay as best attention as you can during pots so you can remember player's actions, and so forth. If you can't remember exact actions, you can usually write down things like "3betting light w A4o, aggro draws, tends to ignore position..." etc. No big deal.

But what kind of statistics should I be tracking? Should I just be taking note of my buy-in at the start of a session and my cash-out amount? Should I note how much I am up or down each hour, so I can attempt to calculate winrate, variance, and bankroll required? Should I get so specific as to count how many times my regular opponents cbet, raise pre, etc? Should I forget taking notes at the table, and just go back after the session and jot things down?

Also if you guys have any specific systems for note-taking, please advise! Thanks.
 
spranger

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you don't mean actually writing down notes during a live game? pretty sure everyone would be like "uhhhh?" maybe im wrong tho
but yeah, just try to remember how people play certain hands, pretty obvious who's a huge fish in live play after like 10 mins
 
shinedown.45

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Syfted said:
I've never played in a casino, I'm not even 21 yet, so I had no idea. I guess that's a big violation of protocol?
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We all need help with our game online because there are no physical tells we can exploit so we have to rely on software and interpret the info we receive but in live games, you really don't need to rely on stats.
When you turn 21 and before you venture out to a casino, may I suggest that you read some books on physical tells.
 
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Syfted

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Any suggested reading Shinedown?
 
Monoxide

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Meh thats like taking notes in the sunday million. The fish usually bust quickly and dont really require notes if you have a memory better than a stoner, not hard to beat them.

The regulars you could maybe take notes for.... but once you get to know which ones grind there everyday, they tend to catagorize all into one group of taggish nits that dont play w/o a hand.

Then you have good players that are making moves and also beating up the fish who are making alot of plays and money and those are the players you would take notes on. These 2 very good korean brothers play 2/5 with me often and i try to avoid them like the plague or just 3bet them preflop and TID. (im very tag so they fold usually) But these kind of players are so few and far between in live poker, is it really worth it? People switch tables so much, and come and go its like I stated above, its like taking notes in the sunday mil, kind of pointless.
 
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begley01

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Taking notes live probably isn't illegal, but i wouldn't recommend it. You going to draw to much attention to yourself winning or losing. You wont see many hands an hour, so keeping mental notes shouldn't be very difficult. I peg people as the loose player, the flush drawer and knit within the first hour.
 
vanquish

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when i play live i generally try to get a feel for what types of players will put moves on me/know what they're doing, and then after that i try to figure out their ranges for opening from certain positions/3betting/postflop play. it's very readbased
 
S93

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shinedown.45 said:
Caro’s Book of Poker Tells - Mike Caro
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Havent read this and i also havent read Navaros(sp?) Read´em and weap(or something like that) but if heard Navaros book is much better and better suited to todays game.
 
Infamous1020

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Syfted said:
Computers have given us so many resources. They track how many times we 3bet c-bet check fold raise pre VP$IP PFA etc. Live... none of this.

In fact a pivotal element of live play is deceiving your opponents into thinking you're playing loose when you're really playing tight, or perhaps vice versa...

I figure my notes for live games shouldn't be all that different for notes in online games. You write down key showdowns, try to pay as best attention as you can during pots so you can remember player's actions, and so forth. If you can't remember exact actions, you can usually write down things like "3betting light w A4o, aggro draws, tends to ignore position..." etc. No big deal.

But what kind of statistics should I be tracking? Should I just be taking note of my buy-in at the start of a session and my cash-out amount? Should I note how much I am up or down each hour, so I can attempt to calculate winrate, variance, and bankroll required? Should I get so specific as to count how many times my regular opponents cbet, raise pre, etc? Should I forget taking notes at the table, and just go back after the session and jot things down?

Also if you guys have any specific systems for note-taking, please advise! Thanks.
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I just keep track of things mentally in my head. Obv I dont know exact stats, like VPiP but i obv keep track of hands etc
 
OzExorcist

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sindri_93 said:
Havent read this and i also havent read Navaros(sp?) Read´em and weap(or something like that) but if heard Navaros book is much better and better suited to todays game.
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Read 'em and Reap by Joe Navarro - bajillion times better than Caro IMO, especially if most of what you're going to be playing is casino NLHE. I've read both multiple times.

As for keeping notes live, I don't think there's anywhere that has rules against it but you'll certainly draw attention to yourself and look like a bit of a tool.

The other thing about trying to keep "stats" live is that they'd almost always be over so small a sample that they'd be useless. Live, if you get dealt 30 hands an hour you're doing pretty well.

Think about that: how many hands do you normally want on someone online before you consider their stats to be reliable? And how long would it take to get that many live, assuming you even could?

Just concentrate on getting people's styles pegged (risk averse or risk affined, LAG, TAG), learn a bit about physical tells and pay attention to the betting patterns. That should be able to fill in all the gaps left by not having a HUD.
 
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i just started playing online poker, and the big amount of players demands notes, but then again you could just play some hands with that new opponent and try and figure out their style... its basically doing the same as in live games
 
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You'll probably get laughed at for taking notes during the game, but if it helps you then so what? Let them laugh. Not a lot of people do it, but I've seen it live and on tv. More often, people take notes after they're finished for the night or during breaks rather than at the table. If there's a chance you'll be seeing those players again it can help you track things you noticed about their play. It's also good while you're learning to take notes on things you tried that did or didn't work.
 
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Did gus hansen not carry a small voice recorder during live tournaments? I saw him at the 05 Aussie millions get up after a hand from the table and record notes. Wierd? Yes. Does it work for him? Maybe. I also know a regular who plays in melbourne and does the same thing.
 
OzExorcist

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Aaronftw said:
Did gus hansen not carry a small voice recorder during live tournaments? I saw him at the 05 Aussie millions get up after a hand from the table and record notes. Wierd? Yes. Does it work for him? Maybe. I also know a regular who plays in melbourne and does the same thing.
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2005 or 2007? He was doing it in 2007 to keep track of the material for his Every Hand Revealed book.
 
vanquish

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it is also appropriate to draw caricatures of the players at your table on a big white slab of rock
 
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