Strange Poker Incident In Vegas

V

VegasXXX

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Thoughts/Experiences ???

I was playing at a Vegas Casino 1-3 No Limit table last week.

Won't mention the casino's name because it is still being investigated.

I was involved in an all in hand with only 1 other caller in the hand. Pot size was north of $1000ish

I pushed All in and after the call I flipped my cards over to expose my winning hand, while still holding them in my hand, I showed the table and the dealer (or so I thought) my king high flush and placed them on the table face up. While the cards were being placed on the table I think and this is the big *I THINK* the dealer may have made a sudden gesture and while collecting the chips and other cards in the muck something moved that may have caused 1 of my cards to flip back over face down. It happened so fast that when the card flipped over I was in disbelief of what happened.

The dealer froze very quickly after realizing what had happened and I immediately called the floor to try and ask them to retrieve the card or see a video of the action to see what the hell just happened. They were quick to rule the hand as mucked. Even tho my card was easily distinguishable from the rest of the muck, + my king was laying on the table face up.

I usually place my cards face up in a clock wise motion as to get them closer to the dealer. They may slide a little bit but I believe the trajectory of other cards that were being moved around or the dealers hands caused my card to flip over.

I also understand the whole concept of protecting your cards , but I feel I wasn't out of the wrong for the way I presented my cards after the action had ended , even more so with my gloating action of showing the table my cards before they were put on the table. I know horrible etiquette but it was ok for the table I was playing at.

I asked to see the video surveillance and was told that they didn't have video camera's in this particular casino which is a huge lie and an insult to me as a patron of this casino.

Gaming is currently pulling the footage of what had happened and are doing an investigation. I know they'll be able to tell what my hand was from the video camera's because the cards were face up for a while before this happened.
 
steveiam

steveiam

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Wow how unlucky was that.. hope the investigation goes in your favour. The fact that the other players saw your cards does that not make a difference in retrieving your card from the muck ?
 
V

VegasXXX

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They saw my hand and laughed when the dealer and floor ruled it as a muck. Im sure because they knew they were getting away with a freebie. I smashed my glass after that and left lol.
 
steveiam

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Hope the glass was empty..lol
 
guppystew

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Wow, that woulda sucked,
and no camera's go figure, what was the end result to review (muck?)
 
CAMurray

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Unfortunate, to be sure.

I learned a routine more years ago than I care to admit to "Sell Your Cards to the Dealer"

Meaning, I never release the cards until after Ive been paid for a winning hand. (Chips Pushed)
 
vinylspiros

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i would have started crying.
 
AlfieAA

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Unfortunate, to be sure.

I learned a routine more years ago than I care to admit to "Sell Your Cards to the Dealer"

Meaning, I never release the cards until after Ive been paid for a winning hand. (Chips Pushed)

ive never played live so bare with me......so what happens at showdown, do you call out your hand and the dealer takes your word for it, pushes the chips to you and you show....or do you show your cards while still holding them?
 
Extreme Fishing

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That sucks man and unless you were playing in the toilet they deffo have camera footage!
 
MediaBLITZ

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I have seen similar (not often). That's why I pretty much keep my cards where they were when I first looked at them, even flipping over. And as was said, I keep those cards until the pot moves.
 
WVHillbilly

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How big of a jerk was the guy who accepted the pot he had no business winning? I mean I assume he saw the cards if it happened the way you described it, so why didn't he say anything? A $1K pot is not enough to sell your integrity for imo.
 
MediaBLITZ

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I'm unclear - was the hand over? Was the turn or river yet to come? Had the other guy shown yet? Did you have him crushed?
 
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I hope you get your money. Poker is a great game, i wish the game of poker had a governing body to protect the game and players. Every freaking casino has its own house rules some make sense some don't its unbelievable.
 
CAMurray

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How big of a jerk was the guy who accepted the pot he had no business winning? I mean I assume he saw the cards if it happened the way you described it, so why didn't he say anything? A $1K pot is not enough to sell your integrity for imo.

Totally Agreed, If I last a hand at showdown and I saw the winner just b4 he accidentally flipped it into the muck, and I was 100% sure I lost the hand, Id push the pot to him every time. The game is poker, a gentleman's/woman's game and Im no more for calling foul a d looking for a ruling on a hand I know I lost, any more than Im for bigger government to tell me what, where, when, and how I can do things.


ive never played live so bare with me......so what happens at showdown, do you call out your hand and the dealer takes your word for it, pushes the chips to you and you show....or do you show your cards while still holding them?

At showdown the dealers say, let see them. I turn over the winner just in front of me, out of the dealers reach, keeping a finger on them.

Sometimes in bigger games or final tables, the dealer will take our hole cards
and place them askew the board so everybody, cameras included, can see them better. They do this on bonus hands also, like aces cracked or bad beat hands.
 
hobonc

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Wow, that is messed up. I'm like WVH, if I saw your hand I would rather retain my honor than to accept the pot knowing I didn't deserve it. I didn't quite understand what you meant by "even more so with my gloating action of showing the table my cards", but when you act out of the ordinary it increases the chance of this type thing happening. I always announce my hand and then turn it over in front of me and on my side of the table line if there is one. Especially if it is on me to show first. Even if you read your hand wrong, like say you announce a straight when you have a flush, the dealer is obligated to use the best possible hand shown provided you don't allow them to be mucked. I hope you get your money back.
 
CAMurray

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Have to hang onto your cards, their like a winning lottery ticket. Not worth crap most of the time, but when that big winner comes along, you don't want to be searching your pockets looking for it.

A couple of times Ive been in seat #1 and just won a hand and now UTG, still stacking chips only to reach down to check my hole cards just a tad slow in time to see the dealer grab them and slide them into the muck b4 I ever looked at them. She just assumed I looked and set them back down to fold while still stacking.

:banghead:
 
wydejim

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sounds to me the dealer wasn't watching what he was doing and flipped your card up.
hope all goes your way and you get your money
 
Propane Goat

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They said they don't have cameras? Yeah right, I thought that Vegas casinos had the some of most intense levels of video surveillance of any area open to the public. Sounds like they knew the dealer screwed up and were trying to shovel **** and blow smoke to cover their butts. Good luck.
 
Blobweird123

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The only part im confused about is you say they stated they have no cameras. But then you state that they are reviewing the footage???
 
xmarus91

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damn sucks but nothing you can do about that except sit and wait
 
V

VegasXXX

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The hand was totally done, it was me all in versus one other caller with all the action ended, only for us to show our cards.I talked to gaming last night and they were all ears and were going to check the footage of what happened. The pit boss was lying when he said their poker room had no cameras and I think gaming took an interest in that when I told them. I talked to a couple other dealers and pit bosses at other tables last night and as far as their concerned if the sky could see my cards before the incident that that should suffice if the camera was requested. I searched high and low for a poker rule book but all I can find is that each casino has different methods for how they run their games. wsop events rules almost seems to favor that they need to know exactly what the cards are in an all in showdown , even if one person mucks. They'll go as far to retrieve the card with the aid of footage.

The thing that pisses me off is I don't know how the card flipped over, If it was my drunk idiotic self that threw them down on the table too hard and they slid and flipped over I could even accept that. But if it was his(dealer) waving hand that turned it over that's different. And to deny me the right of video footage if it is in fact available that's bullshit.

I hate the fact that poker players get treated like 2nd class citizens compared to players playing black jack , craps or roulette. Sure the house isn't making nearly as much money as them but I guarantee if an issue arose on a black jack table with a dealer touching a card he shouldn't have they wouldn't think twice to review the bet. Or if they suspected someone of cheating...

My friend works surveillance in a similar business and said the camera's are cable of reading text messages on your phone that's how good of quality they pick up, so I guess I will see what gaming has to say.
 
MediaBLITZ

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If it was my drunk idiotic self

Ahhhh, new information. JK

So the river had been dealt - you shoved, he called.

You don't say if he showed or if they just awarded him the pot based on your alleged muck.

Did he show? You din't have the nuts so did he have you beat or do you know for a fact you held the winning hand?

Was the dealer dissing you because you were drunk (and sounds like a little obnoxious they way you revealed your hand)?

BTW, usually when a hand is revealed that way it has indicated to me that the holder of that hand was saying, "so close, but no cigar" and lost the hand. Maybe that was the dealers wrong interpretation? and yeah, it is not his job to interpret but go with the facts.
 
C

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You can bet the security cameras will pick you up smashing your glass,
and they are more interested in pursuing that.

Poker is different to Black Jack or Roulette because you are not playing the house.
Even if they find in your favour, your winnings have already left the building.
 
Tinie107

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Imo if you were both all in then you shouldn't even be able to muck your cards?
 
masondub

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Pretty crappy... TBH you really need to protect your cards as much as possible especially in a big pot that your pretty sure your going to win..

Now if your opponent in the hand saw that he was beat and accepted the pot anyways then that is really messed up and truly shows what kind of person he is, which is a scum bag. If I was at the table and witnessed that I would have stood up for you, which would have done nothing, but that person's intergrity woulda shot out the window for me and hopefully everyone else at the table.
 
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