STRADDLES

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DREW0

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Does anyone know of any articles, insrtuctions, advice etc. about straddles, insurance and side bets when playing live cash games? I am unsure of the specifics of these things and am unable to make an informed decision when asked. Rather than appear ignorant I would like to be able to read up about them before it happens again.
 
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markkaz

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I don't find straddles to be very wise. For those who don't know, a 'straddle' bet is one place by the person right after the big blind and it must be double the big blind. This must be done before the cards are dealt so that it is 'blind'.

The reason people do this is to try to be the last person to act before the flop. However, on subsequent rounds, the straddler is now out of position because he is first to act.

Another reason to do this is to create a decent pot. The only thing is that you haven't seen your cards yet.
 
OzExorcist

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I haven't played in games that have straddles, but in theory their major purpose is to encourage action. The idea is that if one person straddles, then everyone else should be straddling as well. So you're disadvantaged for the one hand where you're UTG and putting in two big blinds without seeing your cards, but there'll be more money in the pot a few hands later when you're on the button or in the cutoff.

So straddles put more money in the pot, and they give poor players more opportunities to make mistakes too.

With insurance bets, again, haven't played using them personally, but the important thing to remember is they're (almost) always offered skewed in the favour of the person offering the insurance.

The classic example was Phil Hellmuth taking insurance from Phil Ivey at the World Series last year (can't remember the event, but it was on ESPN). Every time Hellmuth got all-in against someone, he'd take out insurance from Ivey. Ivey very carefully set the odds in his favour, and Hellmuth ended up owing him $20K more in insurance payments than he won in the tournament.

Side bets you've really got to just assess as they come up, as they can be on all sorts of things.
 
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markkaz

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I agree that it puts more money in the pot. So if you happen to have a good hand, then it is worth it.

I may straddle if I have been winning a lot. I want to put some change back on the table for good will.
 
OzExorcist

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A question for those who do straddle to think about:

If there are players at the table not straddling (let's say three or four players at a full table - a couple to your left, a couple to your right), will you still straddle?
 
Jack Daniels

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A few things to consider here:
1) Straddles only apply to cash games, not tournaments.
2) In a cash game, you only have a "live" straddle if everyone at the table agrees that a third blind (double that of the regular big blind aka "the straddle") will be used.
3) If everyone agrees, then everyone for that orbit must post the straddle; it isn't pick and choose per hand in the orbit.
4) If not everyone agrees, then it isn't a live straddle and no one else is forced to do it on subsequent hands.
5) If it is a live straddle, then the person that is UTG+1 becomes UTG and the person that was UTG becomes the third blind AND gets the benefit of acting last on the first round. This means once the betting comes around to his straddle, he has the option of reopening the betting with a raise.
6) If # 4 occurs (where not everyone agrees), then it is not a live straddle. The person UTG simply min-raised blind (which is typically a really stupid thing to do). It also means that the hand will continue as normal and the BB will act last (assuming no re-raises from others after the "straddle").
 
zachvac

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Well the way we play is there's a live straddle but it's not required. I never straddle, others will consistently straddle. I think it's a dumb play, you're putting in 2 big blinds just for having position ONLY PREFLOP. The other thing we do is that if UTG+1 straddles for 2 big blinds, UTG+2 can then re-straddle for 4 big blinds, and if that happens UTG+3 for 8, etc. until the button.

Especially adding that factor in, straddling just doesn't make sense because sometimes you haven't even bought position. I can see logic behind agreeing to play with a live straddle all the way around, but the way I've always played, where straddles are optional each hand, I don't think it's worth it.
 
Jack Daniels

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Of course I would agree that anyone can play by any house rules they like when they run a home game. I'm only speaking to the generally accepted rules of poker in Robert's Rules of Poker.

Here are the two items that I found specific to straddles:

LHE
17. A live “straddle bet" is not allowed at limit poker except in specified games.

NLHE and PLHE
15. In non-tournament games, one optional live straddle is allowed. The player who posts the straddle has last action for the first round of betting and is allowed to raise. To straddle, a player must be on the immediate left of the big blind, and must post an amount twice the size of the big blind. A straddle bet sets a new minimum bring-in; it is not treated as a raise.
 
MrDaMan

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I've never straddled but I've seen it used in different ways. The most common way is gamblers just liking to gamble and look cool. All I can say to that is it must be nice to have money to burn.

Another way I've seen it used and I might take advantage of this my self some day. Is to intimidate rookie players, and to quickly get a read on a game you've just joined. Straddle a few times as you join the game, raise a couple of pots to find out who's loose and who's tight. Do it a couple of times when a new player sits down to see if you can pick up a read that you can use later.

Most times it's just gamblers burning cash, but it can be used to gain information on other players, use it wisely and watch for the canny player who uses it to gain information.
 
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DREW0

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Thanks for all the timley responses. At least now when asked, I will have some inteligent arguements pro and con to make a decision.
 
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4999Perish

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Ive staddled a few fences im my time but not a hand of poker.
I would have to agree with MrDaMan on this.To me a waste of cash.
 
Jack Daniels

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The other thing we do is that if UTG+1 straddles for 2 big blinds, UTG+2 can then re-straddle for 4 big blinds, and if that happens UTG+3 for 8, etc. until the button.
I got to thinking about this and realized that if this ever actually went around the table and each person straddled for double the previous person, a nine handed table of $200NL, the last straddler would be the dealer by posting $256 as his "blind" and the pot pre-deal would be $511. :eek: Of course I'd be really impressed to see a $200NL game where everyone had enough money on the table to make this happen. :)
 
zachvac

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I got to thinking about this and realized that if this ever actually went around the table and each person straddled for double the previous person, a nine handed table of $200NL, the last straddler would be the dealer by posting $256 as his "blind" and the pot pre-deal would be $511. :eek: Of course I'd be really impressed to see a $200NL game where everyone had enough money on the table to make this happen. :)

lol, wonder if you can straddle all-in, even if it's not up to the full amount. Kinda takes the advantage of position away though :)
 
OzExorcist

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Well the way we play is there's a live straddle but it's not required. I never straddle, others will consistently straddle.

The impression I get is that there's a lot of people playing this way.

JD is right, of course - in theory, the straddle should only be live if everyone is playing it on that round of the button.

Like I said, I don't play in games with them. But if I were to, I'd only want to be paying it if everyone were forced to straddle. To me the benefit is forcing extra money into the pot when you're in position, and giving weak players in the straddle position incentive to make mistakes (playing hands they shouldn't play out of position just because they're in for a larger amount already).

If not everyone is paying them, I don't see why I'd want to bother with them.
 
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