staking

Hey all. Just found this place, and I'm sure I'll be here way too much , but I don't have time to do the intro thing/etc right now since I'm heading to Vegas in the AM and wanted to get a question answered on staking. Dude invited me out and said he'd stake me for $1k in some cash games. Now...what's the genereal rule about the payoffs? Obviously if I lose $1k, he's out the $ and I'm out the time. In any other case, does he get his $1k back before I get a dime? So, if I cash out $3k, does he get $2k? If I cash out $1100, does he get $1050 and I ghet $50? If I cash out $200, does he get it all? Etc. Thanks!

And, while I'm at it, do the same rules apply in a tournament? (I'd say no). Say he gave me the $1k to play a tounament, and I cash out $3k. Do we just split that 50/50? I realize there's all kinds of deals you can do, but I want to be fair/rquitable.

JD

well the most obvious thing is to talk to that person and
make an agreement with him about payouts splitting and what games he wants you to play

Yeah, your examples are right.

You lose, he loses money, you lose time

You win, you keep half of the PROFITS

At least that's the standard deal

Yeah, he gets his stake back and profits get split.

For single sessions that deal is extremely -ev for the staker. Most short-term deals are partial ie say you did a 2k buy-in, he gives you 1k then every dollar you bet 50c is yours 50c is his so say you finish with 10k you give him 5k and keep 5k 4k profit for each of you from the 8k (10k-2k) profit overall.

Alternatively the 50-50 arrangements are usually more long-term deals where if you lose you're required to pay makeup when you make it back. I've heard of short-term deals where it's just 50-50 profits losses are on the staker but that's usually just when they're being nice and it's either a gift or an inconsequential amount of money to the staker because it is definitely -ev no matter who it is. There's just too much short-term variance and the fact that the backer eats all the negative variance but only gets half of the positive variance just makes it impossible to be +ev.

The only deals that I have heard of is the staker gets his money back first. So if he stakes you for $1k and after a couple days you finish with $1k then you get nothing and he gets his money back. The percentage split of the profit is whatever gets decided between you, but I would assume in this situation he would want more than 50% of the profit. A 60/40 split of profit wouldn't be that bad for you, and it still doesn't make up for the fact that if you lose it all he is out the money. Of course it all depends on what the two of you decide. So discuss this with the staker and have everything decided upon before you play a single game (with his money).

suit2please said:

The only deals that I have heard of is the staker gets his money back first. So if he stakes you for $1k and after a couple days you finish with $1k then you get nothing and he gets his money back. The percentage split of the profit is whatever gets decided between you, but I would assume in this situation he would want more than 50% of the profit. A 60/40 split of profit wouldn't be that bad for you, and it still doesn't make up for the fact that if you lose it all he is out the money. Of course it all depends on what the two of you decide. So discuss this with the staker and have everything decided upon before you play a single game (with his money).

Click to expand...

>>>

Thanks to all. Dude has staked me before, and we made $, but I forgot the deal we did...but that's probably it. He got his $ back, then we split the winnings 50/50. Plus he'll buy meals/etc (hey, I have to drive 300mi!)I think we did a different deal for a tournament though and just split what I cashed out. He thinks I waste time/$ playing tournies (I STRONGLY disagree, as I believe it's a MUCH different game that takes much different skills), so we'll just be playing $ games. Haven't decided where yet, but I kinda like Caesar's.
Probably should put this in the "intro" section, but here's a picture of me (well...part of my head ...sitting to Oppie's right) playing with Ivey, Matasow, Negraneau and Irv Gotti last year. That tournament will be at the Golden Nugget again this year 7/1.http://gwphotostore.com/cgi-bin/Ima...r_Tournament&image=IMG_9062_1.ifz&img=&tt=ifz

Absolutely right as far as cash games. whatever is left after you've paid back the $1000 gets split down the middle between the two of you.
As far as tourneys go, you can sell a percentage of yourself for $xxx.
When Chris Moneymaker went to Vegas the year he won the main event, he didn't have enough cash to pay for living expenses, so he sold a small chunk of his potential winnings to his dad and a family friend. I'm not sure on the money involved but i'd imagine it was something like $1000 for 5% of total winnings, maybe more. Then he cleared out the main event and netted a couple of mil!
How much you'd sell 1% of your potential winnings in a tourney depends on how good you are I guess.

Most staking is at 60/40 That is 60% for the staker above the 1K which is to be returned if any winnings and 40% for the player. So if he stakes you for a 1k buy in and you win 3k. He gets


1000 original investment
+ 60% of profit+ 1200

So bottom line he gets 2200 of the 3k and you get 800.

Remember he is the investor and deserves the rewards for taking a chance.

MrMuckets said:

Most staking is at 60/40 That is 60% for the staker above the 1K which is to be returned if any winnings and 40% for the player. So if he stakes you for a 1k buy in and you win 3k. He gets


1000 original investment
+ 60% of profit+ 1200

So bottom line he gets 2200 of the 3k and you get 800.

Remember he is the investor and deserves the rewards for taking a chance.

Click to expand...

<<<

Perhaps...but at least in this case it'll be 50/50. I have to drive 300mi (twice), and he made the offer to come out...no doubt based on what happened the last time he staked me. It was actually pretty funny. We sat at a $2/$5 table together, and he had never seen me play (he was only staking me because I *sound* like I know what I'm doing ). I wound up all-in on the first THREE hands that were dealt. The first 2 I had flopped the mortal nuts, and didn't have to show, the third I turned the nuts and raked in a huge pot. Had $300 turned into $2250+ in 3 hands. The funny part was watching his face as I did the all-in thing. He *looked* calm, but I could see that inside he was screaming: "What the hell did I DO staking this freaking maniac!?"