Soft play

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Caesura

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Just wondering what the general feeling is about soft play.

I have just experienced quite a tense bubble in a $5 9player sng. One stack managed to get well ahead and was raising us 3 short stacks all-in with each hand. With only about 3bb left no-one was calling and big stack got huge. Eventually it comes around to one player being all-in with 330 chips and big stack in the small blind of 250. Instead of putting in the rest, he folded and gave the small stack the hand.

I survived the bubble and so did the player just given the free ride. There were about 2 more orbits until the other small stack lost out.

I can understand the mentality of a player who feels important and can dictate who gets the chips as I've seen it before but what is the general consensus on this? I can't imagine it happening in a live game and I felt a bit sick for the person who lost. Incidentally, the two players were from different countries and I don't believe there was any previous collusion as big stack was shoving everyone, it was just that hand.
 
OzExorcist

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Obviously soft play is a bad thing and against the rules and stuff.

In a specific spot like this though it's hard to fault because it's hugely +EV for the big stack to keep all three of you in the game and on the bubble so he can continue to bully you. It sucks, but it's logical.
 
Arjonius

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How did folding the SB give the hand to the small stack? If the SB was 250, then the BB was in for 500 i.e. more than the small stack.
 
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How did folding the SB give the hand to the small stack? If the SB was 250, then the BB was in for 500 i.e. more than the small stack.


The 330 was the big blind, that's all he had left.

I'll try and post the hand history but it's 888 and a pain in the aris
 
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Tournament #42164332 $5 + $0.50 - Table #1 (real money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: PLAYER 2 ( $331 )
Seat 5: CAESURA ( $936 )
Seat 6: PLAYER 3 ( $524 )
Seat 7: LOADSACHIPS ( $11,709 )
LOADSACHIPS posts small blind [$250]
PLAYER2 posts big blind [$331]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to CAESURA [ 5s, Kc ]
CAESURA folds
PLAYER 3 folds
LOADSACHIPS folds
** Summary **
PLAYER 2 did not show his hand
PLAYER 2 collected [ $581



 
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otari

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If you got decent cards and the whale of the table is raising alot, just go with it. It's better than blinding out. I also see this alot when people are trying not to bibble so they fold everything. The way I look at it, If your not first, you're last.
 
midgetfactory

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Its not nice when you are then one that loses out to a play like this, but once everyone has payed their entry fee they should be allowed to play whatever wat they want. Bet the guy who was all in was happy to get the free ride!
 
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Maybe it was a misclick I've been there playing a lot of games you know your going to make the money start to look for the next game and when you come back to the game your playing you hit the wrong button. It looks funny to other players but it happens
 
Arjonius

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Its not nice when you are then one that loses out to a play like this, but once everyone has payed their entry fee they should be allowed to play whatever wat they want. Bet the guy who was all in was happy to get the free ride!
It is unethical to make a play intentionally that is not in your best interest. So no, you cannot - or at least should not - softplay without a solid poker reason. Folding so you can continue to steal the blinds is one possibility. So is folding AA when you're on the satellite bubble with enough chips to fold until someone busts. Otoh, folding to insure you can't bust the short stack because he's your friend isn't acceptable.
 
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It is unethical to make a play intentionally that is not in your best interest.

unethical? its illegal, in this situation the small blind must call the extra 80 chips to knock the player out or face a penalty. Soft play isn't ethics its rules. players should play 'hard' against all players and take the actions to eliminate people as the tournament progresses.

But its online, whatcha gonna do ;-)

besides, ive seen this backfire and the chip leader end up on the bubble after shorty gets a lucky walk then a double up or 2 and hes back in the game. chippy, who was king of the world 2 mins ago, is now short stacked and panicking thinking "why didn't i just call him he'd be out and i'd be in the money."

like you said, there is no reason to suspect collusion, it was probably just a missclick.
 
Arjonius

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unethical? its illegal, in this situation the small blind must call the extra 80 chips to knock the player out or face a penalty. Soft play isn't ethics its rules. players should play 'hard' against all players and take the actions to eliminate people as the tournament progresses.
Can you show me a recognized set of rules that clearly states the SB must call?

As I recall, the TDA rules, for example, don't clearly define what constitutes soft play or what doesn't. So it would be up to the director to decide - based on opinion, not on anything actually in the rules.
 
OzExorcist

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Can you show me a recognized set of rules that clearly states the SB must call?

As I recall, the TDA rules, for example, don't clearly define what constitutes soft play or what doesn't. So it would be up to the director to decide - based on opinion, not on anything actually in the rules.

They do define it in some situations, such as checking the nuts in position on the river.

In a case like this though there's all sorts of defences, ranging from stupidity to it being your strategy to prolong the bubble and continue stealing from the weak-tight players. Plus if it was in a live situation the hand would be mucked so there's no way to "prove" anything anyway.
 
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unethical? its illegal, in this situation the small blind must call the extra 80 chips to knock the player out or face a penalty. Soft play isn't ethics its rules. players should play 'hard' against all players and take the actions to eliminate people as the tournament progresses.

But its online, whatcha gonna do ;-)

besides, ive seen this backfire and the chip leader end up on the bubble after shorty gets a lucky walk then a double up or 2 and hes back in the game. chippy, who was king of the world 2 mins ago, is now short stacked and panicking thinking "why didn't i just call him he'd be out and i'd be in the money."

like you said, there is no reason to suspect collusion, it was probably just a missclick.

Ummmm, no at least not usually. Generally, there is never a situation where you "must call" or face a penalty.

They do define it in some situations, such as checking the nuts in position on the river.

In a case like this though there's all sorts of defences, ranging from stupidity to it being your strategy to prolong the bubble and continue stealing from the weak-tight players. Plus if it was in a live situation the hand would be mucked so there's no way to "prove" anything anyway.

Exactly. Although, as you mentioned, checking-down the nuts, IP on the river, generally WILL get you a penalty, but that is the only normally occurring case that I can think of where a penalty will typically be assessed. There MAY be a couple of others, but none I can think of right now.
 
jaxpaboo

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Obviously soft play is a bad thing and against the rules and stuff.

In a specific spot like this though it's hard to fault because it's hugely +EV for the big stack to keep all three of you in the game and on the bubble so he can continue to bully you. It sucks, but it's logical.

Tend to agree. Keep the bubble going, next hand as big stack on button I will raise to get chips back from SB and 2nd big stack's BB. Chances are good that if 3 shorties are so short, they are going to keep fold until bubble burst.

Then again big stack already has soooo many chips. I wouldn't keep the shortest around.
 
domeburglar

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I can see him trying to keep the bubble open for one more round.. give up the 250 to pick up 750 from the next two blinds.. but couldve just as easily been a miss click lol
 
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