So This is my Elite World class player poker conspiracy!

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cotta777

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So get this -
lets say a group or even groups of the worlds most well renowned poker players, putting information out there for us to read for players to read and learn from,

I mean they are making money the field is easy the money super easy.
Do they really wanna teach players what they know?
Or is it more a case of fine tuning the masses into playing an optimal manufactured and predictable strategy...

Im not saying it started out that way.
But I wouldnt mind betting money they sat down together and thought, Oh my god we can get the whole poker community reading books and playing like sheep
and we can make a sh** load of money both from the books and the players...

Not every player can be as creative as the truely world class player.
we can practice with knowledge by being persistant.

And so many players have made the live events and most fall.
and are like whats this guys secret man, ''Hey how come these guys are always there'' at the end.

Lets say perhaps an element of that is the mainstream mindset has been fine tuned into playing a certain way.

Whilest the truely world class players can pre-percieve the range and pick off easy opponents, whilest avoiding each other.
Since they know the regs are basically playing regualr poker.

and in theory if you really want to be creative and out play a reg you just have to think regular get in the regular mindset and do things that trick the mind.

For example, (more times than not he's not bluffing here) there for its a profitable fold)

and another example, the ranges players are playing in tournaments, like utilising early position is old news, playing weak hands from early to percieve is now widespread in advanced tournaments, and many regs are still in the mindset raising early is a good move
(its only a good move against reg thinking players).
ok not a great example!
but against the best players, its not going to work

anyway I feel that all this poker knowledge, books training, has been conquered.
its one big world of ground hog day for regs chasing the dream, that will never be until they stop being reggy

they can get by sure, but making mass profits = not gonna happen without and advancement to the strategy.

maybe its time we develop a new game strategy?
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Here's the problem with your theory - the players that they're teaching usually aren't the players they're actually playing against, given the difference in stakes.

Teaching a bunch of people how to beat $50NL isn't going to make it any easier to manage their opponents at the $5KNL tables.
 
Arjonius

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There are other problems with the proposed model. For example, even if the elite players tell everything they know, it's safe to assume not everyone will properly integrate it all into their games; e.g. Phil Ivey telling you everything he knows won't automatically make you his equal, or even close. And even if you do absorb and integrate everything, it will take a while, as will building up you BR so you can play at high stakes. During that time, he'll still be working to improve his game.
 
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Kibic1302

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Poker is a fascinating thing :) I keep changing all the time you need to use the 'head'. The strategy very important thing for winning players. But it is through our mistakes someone wins. Mistakes are the essence of poker :) According to my opinion.
 
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lilnewtdog

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I believe as well what makes a great player is being able to make adjustments and impliment many types of strategies.
 
ccocco

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I think maybe they know the same as you or me. who has read a lot of poker and seen in videos and live tournaments. but they have a great experience and a game persepcion basing their intuitions, because all they do calculations pot odds or odds that letters be possible according to the position in the table, find some gesture that betrays clear letters, etc. .. as I said, they are dedicated to that, it's your job, not mine and so many players who know maybe in theory as well as professionals. but we worked something else. and played poker when we can and not as often as we want ..
 
C

cotta777

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Silly thread on second thoughts!
Lol

I suppose whoever makes the most errors as stated will come out worse off.

There for everyone could attempt the same game and strategy but naturally the best players will pick up more traits and make less errors.

Maybe there is an element of superior outside the box thinking though, that can eclipse like I dunno 97.5% of the field
 
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Bowman

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There could be so much to talk about, a few actually do not believe me when I tell them am I correct here: nuances of poker

anyways, they think poker is a simple game. of course they also say they don't risk a penny.

must just not be fans
 
Jackdaclown

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I have had this cross my mind a couple of times, probably a good 5 years ago. Then I let it go because I realized that I change the way I am playing in a tourney a good three to four times, and for long tourneys, prolly triple that or more. I just keep playing a little different through the whole tourney. There really is no way of being able to tell if you are able to adjust your game style as the tourney goes along or as for what is happening at the table. What stands out the most to me is that the tourney is control, not you. You have to change your style of play cause of the things going on around you at your table and for what you thinks needs to happen for you to add to your stack.
 
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I think the problem with this theory is that poker is actually pretty transparent. There is no "secret code" to poker that only there elite few know of. When you have so many people playing and studying every aspect of it there are going to be optimal practices divulged naturally. I think the bigger concern and one that is more valid is that perhaps a lot of these elite pros stake each other frequently and essentially collude against amateurs. Imagine you are sitting at a high stakes table with 5 other players, and they all have a piece of each other. You will ultimately always lose.

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wanderingthehall

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I think that would take too much cooperation from players that are used to viewing each other as opponents. I'm not sure the pro players really make THAT much off of poker alone all the time. Especially when you're playing against the best of the best all the time. I think they are making sure they have a steady income when they write books, accept sponsorships, etc. That will help them through their downswings and give a little cushion.
 
rifflemao

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I think the bigger concern and one that is more valid is that perhaps a lot of these elite pros stake each other frequently and essentially collude against amateurs.

It's common for elite and not-yet-elite players to sell action to the wsop ME, sometimes publicly through social media and poker forums. It's hard to call that collusion given that the player field for the ME is so huge and variance is so high. I'd be curious if a backed player in the ME feels any sort of advantage though, like a sense of buyin-relief that allows them to play more optimally. I guess it depends on how much they value money. $10,000 isn't a fortune but it can buy a lot of useful things...like reasonable tournament buyins, lol.

The idea of pros colluding and\or pooling resources reminds me of the book The Professor, the Banker, and the Suicide King by Michael Craig (Wikipedia for spoilers). Part of the banker's strategy was to raise the stakes to throw the pros off their game, so they "incorporated" so to speak and probably discussed strategy.
 
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JonPM

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I didn't mean in tournaments. I meant in cash games. If there are 5 pros sitting at a table and have pooled their money together in order to get profits from anyone who sits down, that's a form of collusion IMHO

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Carl Trooper

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I didn't mean in tournaments. I meant in cash games. If there are 5 pros sitting at a table and have pooled their money together in order to get profits from anyone who sits down, that's a form of collusion IMHO

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Well this is whats currently being talked about with Guy Laliberte. He is saying the players would split profits between him during the shows of HSP.

100% it happens. What I have learned from playing all these years is that casinos bring together people that would not normally associate with one another. Businessmen sitting with drop outs, college players, criminals, stay at home parents, doctors, musicians etc. All walks of life come together to play the same game.

Point being, all walks of life come to this game and people come from different backgrounds with different ethics. When money is involved, people will always look for an advantage!
 
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SwiftHax

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They write books to make some money and more importantly: bring new players to the game who they can make money off. In my opinion, it's as simple as that.
 
duggs

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and most good strategies are game theoretically sound, which flies in the face of your theory
 
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