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Jurn8

Jurn8

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I find myself finishing in 3rd and 2nd most of the time when playing these SNG's. I think this is due to my play when the field gets get to 2 or 3 players. Does anybody have any advice on hand ranges or strategys that they find successful when in similar situations?
 
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custo80

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G'day Jurn, i used to suffer from the same problem, get into the top 3 and then rags rags rags. Aggression is the key my friend. If your only getting rags, u have to play blind and put pressure on your opponent. Remember if your getting rags, theres a high chance your opponents are too. Put them to the decesion before they put you to one. GL mate
 
Jurn8

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G'day Jurn, i used to suffer from the same problem, get into the top 3 and then rags rags rags. Aggression is the key my friend. If your only getting rags, u have to play blind and put pressure on your opponent. Remember if your getting rags, theres a high chance your opponents are too. Put them to the decesion before they put you to one. GL mate

Thanks mate lol iv just read your blog! What a great tip lol i find myself focusing on $$$ too much also!! do you update your sheet every night or every time you play. Instead of writing down my accumulative profit now im going to write down money received from each game so i have no idea how im doing for the month EG if i won and received $10 i will just write down $10 not taking my buy in and writing $7.25 i think thats a better strategy cheers mate.
 
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custo80

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I update my sheets every time I play. I try to recall as much data i feel will be valuable to look back on and find areas of strength and weakness. Good luck with it all. And keep an eye on the blog :)
 
Jurn8

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Iv just started to do this as i feel somebody on here might be able to help me out with what my stats show but i only have stats from 50 SNG's at which isnt enough i know but iv set goals for the month for the first time and going to record data still.
what data do u record ??
I only record finishing position and accumulative profit at present.
 
dsvw56

dsvw56

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Generally, if you have trouble once you are in the money, the problem stems from not being aggressive enough when at the bubble.
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

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Generally, if you have trouble once you are in the money, the problem stems from not being aggressive enough when at the bubble.

I know im not being aggressive enough. However im not really sure what sort of card ranges to be aggressive on any EGs or ranges for me that you use ?
 
l Love Beer

l Love Beer

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basically when 3-4 players remain, everyone is usually looking at the same rags that you are... The best advice in these spots is to be the one opening the pot. If you make the first move at the pot the hand requirements for the remaining players shrinks. (called the gap theory: it takes a better hand to call a raise than it does to make one.) A mixture of this and an understanding of the prize structure are the main tools i use.

For example: in a 9 man i played today i opened from the button w/ 3 players left holding A9s. SB (big chip leader) folds, and the BB (3rd place w/ a little less than me shoves). After contemplating i go and check the prize structre and figure that the difference between the 20% payout to third and the 30% for 2nd isn't that large, and it's probably in my best interests to take a risk here to have a small chip lead on the SB if i win and we get HU. This play doesn't quite agree w/ the gap theory, but i felt strongly that this was the right move here all things considered. He showed 77 and flop came AAx and i ended up taking down the sng. Basically to sum it up, pick you spots and always have a reason for your plays... hope this helps, even though it went on forever.
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

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basically when 3-4 players remain, everyone is usually looking at the same rags that you are... The best advice in these spots is to be the one opening the pot. If you make the first move at the pot the hand requirements for the remaining players shrinks. (called the gap theory: it takes a better hand to call a raise than it does to make one.) A mixture of this and an understanding of the prize structure are the main tools i use.

For example: in a 9 man i played today i opened from the button w/ 3 players left holding A9s. SB (big chip leader) folds, and the BB (3rd place w/ a little less than me shoves). After contemplating i go and check the prize structre and figure that the difference between the 20% payout to third and the 30% for 2nd isn't that large, and it's probably in my best interests to take a risk here to have a small chip lead on the SB if i win and we get HU. This play doesn't quite agree w/ the gap theory, but i felt strongly that this was the right move here all things considered. He showed 77 and flop came AAx and i ended up taking down the sng. Basically to sum it up, pick you spots and always have a reason for your plays... hope this helps, even though it went on forever.

thats quiet interesting what you said about it takes a better hand to call a raise than it does to make one. Thinking about it, it actually does lol
so i take it you just have to be aggressive and pick your spots. what sort of hand ranges do you suggest as a rough guide although i know i will have to adapt to the game and current playing styles.
 
l Love Beer

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thats quiet interesting what you said about it takes a better hand to call a raise than it does to make one. Thinking about it, it actually does lol
so i take it you just have to be aggressive and pick your spots. what sort of hand ranges do you suggest as a rough guide although i know i will have to adapt to the game and current playing styles.

Like you said you'll have to adapt to the game: stack sizes, playing styles, payout, ect... but when 3 handed in a normal 9 man i will open a pot w/ any PP, A8+, KJ+, QJs, and mid-range suited connectors on occaision. I am not saying that anyone else should play like this, it just personal preferance... And obviously this is only when the blinds are high and Ms are low.
If the sng has been running really fast and the blinds are only say 100/200 and avg stack is ~4K-4.5K you don't need to be so agressive because your not getting a big enough reward for stealing the blinds and your not blinding out as fast (although this isn't usually the case).

I also find that reverse psychology can be very profitable in short handed play... Overbetting or shoving your premium hands to induce suspicion in your opponents. Most times an open shove from the small blind looks like a blatent steal attempt, widening the BB's calling range. So if you shove a hand like QQ for example he may look you up with a much weaker hand than normal (his reasoning being- why would he shove into me if he wanted a call... this must just be a steal)

Once that pesky 3rd place finisher is out of the way stack sizes can often dictate your play, but when the stack sizes are fairly equal i spend the first few hands trying to peg my opponent's HU style. If you don't feel comfortable setting the pace yourself it's usually best to adapt to his play and use it to your advantage. If he's super agressive, and the blinds aren't eating you alive try to find a spot where you either have a monster preflop or connect hard with the flop and trap him. Let him dig his own grave.

If he's fairly tight and you've noticed that he won't defend his blinds then by all means take them whenever you can. If he's folding to 60-70% of preflop raises and not contesting your BB, the constantly raise from the button, even regardless of your holdings in some cases. If you are called, re-evaluate your situation on the flop, and if raised only continue w/ stong hands. Pretty simple, but i feel that playing the opposite of your opponent is a solid strategy, and HU it is very easy to decide if he's an agressive player or a more passive one.
You will almost always have to change your style when HU, and there is really no starting hand requirements here. In HoH: volume 2, Action Dan says that it is never the right play to fold from the SB, in position and getting 3:1 odds. I don't completely agree here, but the math he uses to back it up is that even w/ 23o you are only a ~2.1:1 underdog to an average hand. So your odds are always good enough to at least call.
To sum up another long/rambling post adapt to your opponent and think your actions through.
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

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Like you said you'll have to adapt to the game: stack sizes, playing styles, payout, ect... but when 3 handed in a normal 9 man i will open a pot w/ any PP, A8+, KJ+, QJs, and mid-range suited connectors on occaision. I am not saying that anyone else should play like this, it just personal preferance... And obviously this is only when the blinds are high and Ms are low.
If the sng has been running really fast and the blinds are only say 100/200 and avg stack is ~4K-4.5K you don't need to be so agressive because your not getting a big enough reward for stealing the blinds and your not blinding out as fast (although this isn't usually the case).

I also find that reverse psychology can be very profitable in short handed play... Overbetting or shoving your premium hands to induce suspicion in your opponents. Most times an open shove from the small blind looks like a blatent steal attempt, widening the BB's calling range. So if you shove a hand like QQ for example he may look you up with a much weaker hand than normal (his reasoning being- why would he shove into me if he wanted a call... this must just be a steal)

Once that pesky 3rd place finisher is out of the way stack sizes can often dictate your play, but when the stack sizes are fairly equal i spend the first few hands trying to peg my opponent's HU style. If you don't feel comfortable setting the pace yourself it's usually best to adapt to his play and use it to your advantage. If he's super agressive, and the blinds aren't eating you alive try to find a spot where you either have a monster preflop or connect hard with the flop and trap him. Let him dig his own grave.

If he's fairly tight and you've noticed that he won't defend his blinds then by all means take them whenever you can. If he's folding to 60-70% of preflop raises and not contesting your BB, the constantly raise from the button, even regardless of your holdings in some cases. If you are called, re-evaluate your situation on the flop, and if raised only continue w/ stong hands. Pretty simple, but i feel that playing the opposite of your opponent is a solid strategy, and HU it is very easy to decide if he's an agressive player or a more passive one.
You will almost always have to change your style when HU, and there is really no starting hand requirements here. In HoH: volume 2, Action Dan says that it is never the right play to fold from the SB, in position and getting 3:1 odds. I don't completely agree here, but the math he uses to back it up is that even w/ 23o you are only a ~2.1:1 underdog to an average hand. So your odds are always good enough to at least call.
To sum up another long/rambling post adapt to your opponent and think your actions through.

thanks for your advice and help i will try and adapt this strategy this evening when i plan to play poker from 6pm til the early hours and drink Bulmers over ice ! but not too much cus ill end up shoving any old hand! i think i will maybe buy a poker book after the july month has ended to read whilst on holiday! any suggestions on that?? poker im finding now is very complex lol and before i started to research i just thought as it of playing your cards now i realise the oppo is more important when it comes to not hitting cards, bluffing and working out playing styles and i have done alot of research and reading over this week so hopefully i will profit big tonight.
 
l Love Beer

l Love Beer

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If your serious about SNG's, i would recommend collin moshman's "Sit'N Go Strategy" I'm reading through it right now, and even though i have been spending a lot more time playing than reading lately (and i haven't finished it yet) i definately think it is worth a read.
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

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If your serious about SNG's, i would recommend collin moshman's "Sit'N Go Strategy" I'm reading through it right now, and even though i have been spending a lot more time playing than reading lately (and i haven't finished it yet) i definately think it is worth a read.
ok ill have a look see if i can get a copy of it
Many thanks
Jake
 
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